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The largest alternative flag in the country has been snatched in broad daylight from the flagpole on the roundabout on Takitimu Drive.The flagpole has been broken into. Photo: Tracy Hardy.
The 3m by 6m flag which was sponsored by Bay Venues chairman Peter Farmer was removed from the pole about mid-day today.
A male in his 40s, not tall, under 1.8m was seen at the flagpole about noon.
The flag has been flown on alternate days with the New Zealand flag over the past week.
The decision to fly the alternative flag this week from the Takitimu Drive roundabout flagpole is delighting some, but infuriating others..jpg)
The flagpole is bare. Photo Tracy Hardy
One of the infuriated is Rob Paterson who says flying anything other than the official New Zealand flag from the pole breaches the flag pole's resource consent.
The decision to fly the alternative flag on alternate days is made by Tauranga City Council, which is also responsible for policing the flagpole resource consent.
The council is acting on the advice of Rebecca Perrett, general manager environmental services, who states that as the alternative flag is being alternated with the New Zealand national flag, it is in general accordance with the conditions of resource consent.
It also asked Martin Rodgers, project manager of the New Zealand Flag consideration project if the council can fly the New Zealand flag and alternative flag on alternate days. The advice is that is at the council's discretion.
Rob says it's unlawful. The government advice deals with flying of the referendum flags in a public place generally, which has nothing to do with the flagpole at Takitimu Drive with its specific and clear RMA Consent terms.
'Tauranga Council is the consent holder, and also the consenting and enforcement authority yet it saw fit to use one of its TCC staff members to justify the inane conclusion that the silver fern referendum flag is in some way an alternative NZ National Flag – it is not,” says Rob.
More details as they become available.
How it used to look. Photo Bruce Barnard.
54 comments
Flags
Posted on 06-03-2016 13:49 | By sangrae
Bloody good job, should never have been put up there.
seesee
Posted on 06-03-2016 13:52 | By SeeSee
Sounds like the new proposed flag was a lot larger then present flag. So, would that have been for any special reason, I wonder, to make it more noticeable ? I would not be unhappy that the proposed flag has apparently gone walkabout.
LOL
Posted on 06-03-2016 13:53 | By astex
Well! They WERE warned not to fly the non national flag against their own rules. And in broad daylight too.
Sad attitudes
Posted on 06-03-2016 13:59 | By Gammelvindnz
Why are some of the anti brigade being so unbelievably nasty, disagreements are fine, vote against the new flag, they apparently hold the majority of the votes but I definitely do not want to be lumped in with that negative attitude, and has confirmed my vote for the new flag.
Yep...
Posted on 06-03-2016 14:23 | By Jimmy Ehu
sad attitude indeed!!!, you would have thought we as " Kiwis" are better than that, we are actually becoming Australian in our actions, so just change a couple of stars and get on with it!!!, respect is one thing, childish behaviour is another.
So very sad
Posted on 06-03-2016 14:46 | By adee
As some one who looks over the flag pole I'm extremely disappointed that some idiot thought that he had the right to remove this flag. It has been fantastic for everyone driving that road to be able to see what the alternate design looked like. Whether they choose to vote for it or not is totally over to them. I'm confused as to why some people are so nasty when they find that others don't share their same views. We live in a democratic country, where everyone is entitled to their own opinions and the freedom to express them.
Sad attitudes
Posted on 06-03-2016 14:51 | By Twinkle Toes
I too am fed up will all these people whinging. You all have the chance to vote so stop moaning and vote for what you want. As for the prat stealing the flag,you WILL get caught and lets hope you get named and shamed.
Lol
Posted on 06-03-2016 15:03 | By Kenworthlogger
Well done
People mustn't have a choice
Posted on 06-03-2016 15:06 | By BullShtAlert
It's all just so petty and more like a totalitarian state where people don't get a choice or to decide on alternatives. I'm happy to accept whatever flag is chosen by the people. It's a pity we have mindless cretins determined to steal and even use threats of violence to get their own way. It's easy to come to the conclusion that there are many pathetic rule-book bound moaners in Tauranga.
Well Done That PATRIOT!!!
Posted on 06-03-2016 15:11 | By Chapsmate
So good to see that we have Patriots who are willing to face criminal prosecution from those attempting to force a new flag on our country.
Anti democratic
Posted on 06-03-2016 15:15 | By Hiwinui
It is sad that those against change have attracted such a criminal element to their cause. Those who applaud vandals and thieves should be ashamed of themselves. The anti brigade have really shown their hand here!
Well well...
Posted on 06-03-2016 15:17 | By penguin
Shows what can happen when the council breaks its own rules, gets a lowly employee to make the decision about flying (presumably to keep council at arm
Gety another and I'll guard it
Posted on 06-03-2016 15:17 | By Murray.Guy
Someone get another and we'll guard it. Not because of the flag BUT to protect democracy. Absolute disgrace!
GOOD ON HIM
Posted on 06-03-2016 15:30 | By Colleen Spiro
Oh and it WAS NOT STOLEN....He took it down and attempted to return it to the Mayor.....He is not the only unhappy person agrees with him, that an unofficial flag is flying on our city's flagpole. Predictable though, given that a National MP and the donator of the flag pole approached the Council for permission and THEY SAID YES, AS THEY WOULD. Surprised NO. It is NOT an ALTERNATIVE to any flag, it needs to be voted on.
Ugly logo
Posted on 06-03-2016 15:34 | By Kiwimon
Good riddance!
Panic has set in
Posted on 06-03-2016 15:45 | By Ron
the old flag brigade are terrified that people will like the new flag. They have panicked and are prepared to break the law (incidentally the ones they hypocritically claim their forefathers fought for under the old flag)in order to force their opinions on others. This action says it all. The old flag supporters are anti democracy, anti freedom of speech and scared of different opinions. Roll on the new improved New Zealand!
Had to happen.
Posted on 06-03-2016 15:45 | By URKidding
Excellent news for once.
voting
Posted on 06-03-2016 15:49 | By roseh
I was of the impression when voting was taking place all things to be removed.But it sure dosen't apply to the flags.There should have been none of these proposed flags flying any where at all.Wonder how much Mike Hosking gets to push the new one down our throats every chance he gets.??
Well done!
Posted on 06-03-2016 15:51 | By Linaire
I am really happy that the new flag has been taken down! Three cheers to the person who had the guts to do that! .. especially in broad daylight! Many thanks mate!
I Think
Posted on 06-03-2016 16:14 | By Baystyle
Congratulations are in order. What upsets me most is when our Maori partners wanted to fly their flag on the harbour bridge it was a huge problem but this dish cloth is flown everywhere. Good on you mate!
The new style flag will be either tossed into rubbish bins or placed into a museum as a
Posted on 06-03-2016 16:16 | By Watchdog
Can we have all those millions back. If it does go ahead, how many more millions will we spend to change letterheads, flags in school, the RSA (who will probably refuse to fly it) Govt Departments, etc. Many many more millions of dollars will be spent. Oh for new housing for the poorer sectors of our society that all this money could provide.
Social Engineering has been the hall mark
Posted on 06-03-2016 16:27 | By Fonzie
of this whole flag campaign Instead of politicians doing it it seems a member of the public has decided to make a stand There is only one legitimate flag at the present time so that is the only one that should be flown
what an attitude
Posted on 06-03-2016 16:27 | By DeeGee
I wonder if this is indicative of the pushy/narrow minded attitude of the "anti-change" brigade? Wake up people...the only thing one can count on in this life is CHANGE, and how fortunate we are that we have a democratic say about that change!! We can vote and choose to no longer have to fly the symbol of colonialism (which was foisted on us) over our land.
So sad
Posted on 06-03-2016 17:09 | By Bestlife
We can all vote against the flag if we want to, so no issue there. But, acts of vandalism like this could make voters turn to the new flag, as Gammelvindnz says above, so they are not tarnished with this sort of behaviour.
awful flag design
Posted on 06-03-2016 17:27 | By This Guy
Good on him! should have burnt the dreadful thing so it doesn't reappear again
The T.C.C. should never have been involved
Posted on 06-03-2016 17:35 | By SML
especially when asked by Mr Mueller, who while a National MP, is not the MP for Tauranga. This should not have had a political input at all, least of all by the T.C.C. It's the attempted political manipulation of a democratic vote that I most object to, and that our city council got involved is appalling.
Good on yer Mate
Posted on 06-03-2016 17:37 | By Mackka
Great that someone had the guts to do this :) I am behind you all the way mate!
Well well..
Posted on 06-03-2016 17:41 | By penguin
Shows what can happen when the council breaks its own rules and gets an employee to make the decision about flying (presumably to keep council at arm
flag vote
Posted on 06-03-2016 17:51 | By phoenix
If these are the type of yobbos supporting the current flag,I just changed my vote,to support the new proposed flag.
Again Good Job
Posted on 06-03-2016 18:20 | By Merlin
Again good job the flag should not have been flown and the council should not have got involved. It is becoming obvious the council are supporting National on this referendum
Drop kicks
Posted on 06-03-2016 18:34 | By Mudgie
This just shows just the mentality of the people that are opposed the the flag change and and are not helping their cause.
excellent job
Posted on 06-03-2016 18:45 | By vandoo
...flag snatcher! It should never have been there in the first place. Maybe we will see it up for sale on TradeMe in the next few days!!
Rough justice
Posted on 06-03-2016 19:27 | By xenasdad
So a publicly minded citizen has given his time to remove a flag flown in breach of the written resource consent, as explained by a legal source who has researched the consent, and explained this to the council previously. It appears that in the usual TCC style we have become accustomed to this was ignored, and a twisted weasel reasoning invoking other bodies opinions was used to justify the breach of the consent, BY THE VERY AUTHORITY THAT WAS LEGALLY BOUND TO POLICE ANY BREACH!! "Bully Boy Tactics" is the phrase that comes to mind. How do our pathetic Council sleep at night?? Now there will be a huge smokescreen about THEFT and prosecuting this Criminal who STEALS property so generously donated for the PUBLIC to HELP them decide WHICH flag to choose. NOT an attempt to INFLUENCE anyone, of course NOT !!!!
Not Surprised
Posted on 06-03-2016 20:06 | By Jitter
If TCC decide to go against their own RMA consent terms then they should not be surprised that someone has taken the matter into their own hands.Rebecca Perrett, Environmental Services, should be hauled over the coals for advising TCC it is ok to go against their own resource. consent.I'm sorry but I agree 100% with Rob Paterson. If TCC go against their own resource consent as they please then the RMA is not worth the paper it is written on.
sadly
Posted on 06-03-2016 20:20 | By Thoughtful
it seems that the many of the supporters of the current flag are anti the proposed new flag because it is a National/John Key initiative rather than they prefer the current over the proposed.
John Oliver
Posted on 06-03-2016 20:56 | By Merlin
Are you there John Oliver/Key.What a fiasco.
More New Flag Publicity
Posted on 06-03-2016 21:31 | By scottmss
Pretty small minded thief. It's the old saying: Don't argue with idiots because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. If anything the new flag just gained much more publicity you fool.
@ Gammelvindnz
Posted on 06-03-2016 21:53 | By Crash test dummies
The negative here is that TCC have put the flag up in breech of the consent that they gave themselves. They are the applicant, approver, issuer and enforcer, so in other words they are Judge, jury and executioner. Can you see the problem here?
had to be done
Posted on 06-03-2016 21:59 | By Hunterway
Great!Someone had to do it .if the council wont abide by its own rules we don't have to either.Is "The Warehouse" going to rent the flag pole?Think I'll get a pig for my back yard.
Wow...
Posted on 07-03-2016 03:01 | By GreertonBoy
I thought it was ugly in pictures of it... but that looks terrible in the picture of it up the pole... it looks very wishy washy and bland.... I for one will never be proud of that rag... I mean, flag.... I take it this guy never left any shoes in its place? hehe If we must have a different flag... something with a bit of punch might be acceptable, but that up the pole, to me, looks awfull... Very drab and drole...
Its Amazing
Posted on 07-03-2016 07:46 | By bubbles
That those "New Flag" supporters are missing the point. The point is by flying the alternate flag, the council is in breach of its own consent. Everyone else has to abide by council enforced consent procedures, so they should too. Whatever their reasoning for flying the flag is, is clearly wrong.People will vote for what ever flag they feel they want to vote for. But flying the alternate flag and clearly breaching their own rules is wrong and I for one am glad someone put a stop to it.
@ bubbles
Posted on 07-03-2016 08:01 | By Crash test dummies
Exactly right.
New Flag
Posted on 07-03-2016 08:02 | By bubbles
What I also don't understand is, a few people on here are changing their vote because of one man. Really!? You're basing your decision that could potentially affect the country's foreseeable future on the actions of one man!? That is such a silly way to cast a vote! Vote for The flag you want, for the right reason! and one man pulling a flag down which should not have been put there in the first place, IMO is the WRONG reason.
It seems...
Posted on 07-03-2016 08:37 | By penguin
...that the dangerous black mould in the council building has also attacked democratic principles. Muller expected the council to accede to his request because he is an MP, the TCC/Mayor (who knew the facts) buckled under and broke their own rules and Key ignored democracy by allowing an additional flag to enter the first referendum. For those who are pontificating about the 'removal' of the flag, think again. Examine the meaning of 'principles.' Try the Encarta dictionary to start with.
@ phoenix
Posted on 07-03-2016 10:09 | By Captain Sensible
These "yobbos" are probably Kiwis from the BOP, so by your 'logic' you now hate kiwis and despise the BOP. Might pay to think before typing.
captain sensible
Posted on 07-03-2016 11:00 | By phoenix
Yobbos are yobbos no matter where they come from. you should be prosecuted for falsely representing your post name
@ thelotofyou......
Posted on 07-03-2016 13:52 | By Jimmy Ehu
Posting comments, for once I do not give a "rats" about the Council, get over yourselves, either vote for change, or not!!!, it's very simple, if you don't like the Council vote in their up coming elections your dissent, this is about a flag, keep your emotions and political leanings in check, and make your choice through democracy, if you do not vote shut the hell up!! .
@ phoenix
Posted on 07-03-2016 14:50 | By Captain Sensible
Your logic makes no sense. If you understood my point, you would see that instead of trying an old well used attempt at an insult.
@ Deegee
Posted on 07-03-2016 15:07 | By Papamoaner
These people like Deegee are the worst kind. They want change for the sake of change. The anti "if it aint broke, don't fix it" kind. Anyone who disagrees with them is immediately labelled as "can't handle change" That mentality grew out of Rogernomics. They make up their own history and statistics, to justify their stance, for example, claiming the silver fern leaf was turned over by early maori navigating through the bush. In fact, very few ferns are silver underside. Bushmen have done that for decades, but most ferns are green both sides and still noticeable when turned regardless, so the silver fern is of little or no significance in history. It's all about exaggeration and embellishment.
Council
Posted on 07-03-2016 15:14 | By Papamoaner
People keep blaming "the council" for awful decisions when in fact it's often salaried staff, administrators, engineers etc, that are incompetent and out of control. Elected councillors have little say except when it comes to the vote.
@Papamoaner
Posted on 08-03-2016 09:44 | By penguin
It is true that employed staff make many day-to-day decisions (as the Mayor notes are
Alternative or new National Party Flag
Posted on 09-03-2016 12:50 | By Laurie
I can't believe the lengths the Nats are going to in trying to coerce/pressure people into voting for the Silver Fern (J.K.) flag - no doubting its at the top of his wish list. Firstly TV & print media & now the nationwide delivery to 1000's of NZ mail boxes of their glossy full colour 'VOTE FOR CHANGE' (flag) junk mail leaflet - nicely timed to coincide with the delivery of the referendum voting papers - almost seems like it should be illegal like a political party promotion outside a polling booth?? Did people notice the use of an old marketing trick in the brochure accompanying the voting paper - Silver Fern flag first in the pics (reading from L to R) & also listed 1st on the voting paper - subtle mind game suggesting if its at the top of the list its the best choice!!
Blind
Posted on 09-03-2016 13:32 | By Hunterway
Am I blind or just had too much too drink?The new flag looks like a white feather to me . Nothing like a silver fern that we hold so dear. Or even the Kiwi that eats roots and leaves in the dark.
Best news for ages!!!!
Posted on 14-03-2016 13:55 | By Bruja
I know this is old news now but I hadn't heard about it. Excellent news!!! Big kudos to whoever removed the ILLEGALLY FLOWN rag! Well done! :)
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