Plans to fly a giant version of the NZ alternate flag from the Elizabeth St/Takitimu Drive flagpole are being challenged by Mount Maunganui lawyer Rob Paterson.
Tauranga City Council has permission from the government committee that looks after flag flying and has checked the resource consent about a plan to fly the alternate flag on alternate days, but Rob says the flagpole's consent only permits the New Zealand flag to be flown.
Tauranga City Council is going to fly the alternative flag on the Elizabeth Street/Takitimu Drive flagpole.
Rob was a submitter on the original Resource Management Act application to site the former Woolworths flagpole there in 2006.
'In the past week or so, media reports confirm that council and associated parties intend to remove the NZ National Flag and fly an alternative flag in contravention of the RMA Consent.
'Any breach of this nature is unlawful and illegal, and the public can rightly expect council to comply with the law and not deliberately flout it particularly as the Tauranga Council is the consent holder, consenting authority and enforcement authority,” says Rob in a letter to the councillors this week.
Rob expressed concerns before the terms of the original RMA consent for the flagpole were not being adhered to.
'The Resource Consent specifically stipulates only the New Zealand National Flag can be flown.
'In addition there can be no public gatherings or ceremonies at the site of the flagpole.”
The 3m x 6m alternate lag is being sponsored by businessman and BVL chairman Peter Farmer.
Mayor Stuart Crosby says the opportunity to see a giant version of the alternate flag flying from the Elizabeth Street/Takitimu Drive flagpole is the result of a request from Bay of Plenty MP Todd Muller, and the sponsorship of Peter Farmer who is paying for it.
'We have to make it very clear, we're not endorsing the new proposed flag. We propose to fly them both to generate interest and debate over the upcoming referendum,” says Stuart.
The contents of Rob's letter is being assessed by the city council legal team, and then they will make a decisions, says Stuart. The big flag is under construction.
Those in council who promote flying the alternative flag will effectively be parties to any breach of the Resource Consent which amount to a premeditated and deliberate act, says Rob.
He says Stuart is aware of the legal position from correspondence in 2010 and 2011.
Peter Farmer, representing the Tauranga Community Flagpole Trust, was the instigator of the original flagpole project, says Rob. That Trust eventually paid for the flagpole relocation and reconstruction.
'And as I recall, gave assurances that the costs of maintaining same would be met by the Trust, then left it to TCC ratepayers to foot the bill with a $5,000 per year budget for the purchase of new flags, banners, repairs and maintenance,” says Rob.
While it's generous of Peter Farmer to pay the cost of making an alternate flag, the flagpole on the roundabout is not an option where it can be flown, because that would be unlawful and against the RMA consent, says Rob.
'To every New Zealander, it is a fundamental principle that the law be complied with, not deliberately flouted, particularly by a local authority, in this case Tauranga City Council.
'Any failure by council as the enforcement authority and consent holder to take remedial action in respect of any breach that occurs will amount to a continuing breach of the Resource Consent.”


47 comments
flag
Posted on 24-02-2016 08:46 | By dumbkof2
make the council abide by its own consent rules. farmer can fly his flag from his own pole
flag
Posted on 24-02-2016 09:10 | By My Bit
haven't they got better things to do with their time rather than worry about what bloody flag is flying
Agree
Posted on 24-02-2016 09:11 | By Captain Sensible
Totally agree with dumbkof2. The TCC should keep their PC noses out of this.
here we go again
Posted on 24-02-2016 09:20 | By The author of this comment has been removed.
TAKE THE POLE AWAY AND CUT ABOUT 1 AND A HALF METRES OFF CIRCLE AS WHEN 2 BIG QUADS TRY TO GET AROUND IT IS TO TIGHT,IF THE EXIT FROM THE MT END GUARD RAIL WAS MOVED BACK A METRE IT WOULD ALLOW SAFER EXIT FOR THE LONG RIGS,THE THICK HEDGE ENTERING THE ROUNDABOUT TOWARDS ELIZABETH STREET NEEDS CUTTING RIGHT BACK AND MAYBE BUILD A WOODEN FENCE FURTHER BACK SO YOU CAN SEE ELIZABETH STREET EASIER,IT IS ONLY HEDGE FOR GOODNESS SAKE NO NEED FOR IT,NZTA AND COUNCIL DO NOT CARE AS IT WOULD TAKE A POWER OF EFFORT AND CLIP BOARDS TO MAKE A DECISION,THANKYOU SUNLIVE
here we go again
Posted on 24-02-2016 09:23 | By The author of this comment has been removed.
I AGREE WITH ROB, THEY DO WHAT THEY WANT AND DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE LITTLE PEOPLE,FUNNY HOW MONEY AND SOMEBODIES BACK POCKET GETTING A BACK HANDER, THANKYOU SUNLIVE
NZ
Posted on 24-02-2016 09:27 | By DanielT
I expect to see the actual NZ flag flying at official flag poles until the country decides they want the alternative one to replace it via referendum.
what if...
Posted on 24-02-2016 09:43 | By Captain Sensible
If I offer my underpants for free, will they fly them too?
YEAH, RIGHT!
Posted on 24-02-2016 09:49 | By xenasdad
So Stuart actually believes "We're not endorsing the new proposed flag." by flying a HUGE one. How often is irrelevant, it's the act of doing it, even once! Amazing twisted logic, but hang on- this is TCC "reality" AGAIN!
oooooo! scary letter to council
Posted on 24-02-2016 09:58 | By ow
rob obviously hasn't got a lot else going on. If the flag is as bad as he thinks, flying it will help his cause
FLAG
Posted on 24-02-2016 10:22 | By mlangdon
tHE cOUNCIL HAS ABSOLUTELY no right TO GET INVOLVED IN THE FLAG DEBATE (DEBACLE) of course they are endorsing the 'new' flag by flying it, do they think we are that stupid. Leave it alone and let everyone vote as they see it and not be brainwashed by councils and high profile people.
Get on with it
Posted on 24-02-2016 10:27 | By Gigilo
I want to see my new flag flying from that pole.
Capt Sensible
Posted on 24-02-2016 10:37 | By Kenworthlogger
Lol you made my morning.... Yes why is the council getting involved here.. Glad Crosby is ont seeking re election. Jumping before he sinks as he knows we have all had a guts full...
Finally some legal sense
Posted on 24-02-2016 10:40 | By The Sage
Peter Farmer should fly the flag outside his own business, if he wants to see it so much. so this is a "request by Todd Muller," which means it is a directive by John Key. This is going to backfire on Key for sure, ramming it down people's throats. What is Simon Bridges' take on this? He is very quiet on the matter.
Captain Sensible
Posted on 24-02-2016 10:42 | By penguin
Flying undies - could bring a new meaning to the "red peek!"
Good call Rob
Posted on 24-02-2016 11:02 | By Crash test dummies
But TCC often breaches the rules that itself monitors, there is a double standard governed by "I want to" mentality. TCC is effectively not even an adolescent in its behavior, it should setting a above average example of "getting it right". Now that would be a novel idea now wouldn't it.
Think again
Posted on 24-02-2016 11:10 | By fletch
My thoughts are that until the change is passed then leave our flag alone.
Used a puppets
Posted on 24-02-2016 11:13 | By Merlin
The National party are using the council as puppets to try and assist John keys desire to change the flag so the council must have a lot of National voters.So disgusting.Any lengths to try and lift the vote.
no place for alternative yet
Posted on 24-02-2016 11:29 | By hapukafin
Apart from the good news of us being able to purchase a little bit of Abel Tasman Park for our future this is the next most entertaning bit of news that has no place to be.
Disgraceful
Posted on 24-02-2016 12:02 | By audidoou
What a lot of political back rubbing rubbish. If it isn't the politicians using this as vehicle to get a mention then its a local business getting in on the act. And in the back ground we have a weakened Council. To fly the proposed replacement flag is nothing more than a promotion for its election. I for one would remove that flag for the sake of New Zealanders who lived and died under it but alas I'm far away and not really capable of doing that now, sadly. The Council needs to understand the public discontent and not allow this, after all the Council is publically appointed!
Overit
Posted on 24-02-2016 12:19 | By overit
Good on you Mr Paterson.
Why so afraid
Posted on 24-02-2016 12:32 | By Brevig
Why are people so afraid of seeing he alternative flag flying? Use some common sense, this is democracy. Whether we like it or not let us see it to help make up our minds.
NOT a council issue
Posted on 24-02-2016 12:32 | By The Tomahawk Kid
Q: WHY do council think this is a good thing to be involved in? A: Because the public continually and habitually demand the council get involved in things that SHOULD be none of their business thats why! There will always be some councillor who wants to UP his profile and pander to the wants of those who scream the loudest. That is why we need SMALLER councils whose business it is to deal with the ESSENTIAL needs of the city and nothing else. If that were to happen ratepayers could expect a rates REDUCTION as opposed to an increase, and all the moaners out there would have their OWN MONEY in their pockets to support the things THEY value instead of having it spent on things they disagree with. A council big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have!
Leave the Flag alone
Posted on 24-02-2016 13:08 | By Cydifor
even has it fluttering in the breeze outside his own house. The "new" flag is not our national flag so just leave up what is already there. If John Key through Todd Muller is influencing the council then how else is the council being influenced by central government? I am still wondering why John Key has pushed this flag thing so hard, I guess it is to take our attention off what they are really doing - TPP, RMA change proposals perhaps - sleight of hand maybe! Watch both those hands!
RMA Consent reality
Posted on 24-02-2016 13:29 | By Murray.Guy
Yes, a consent with conditions applies to the pole. But as with MANY resource consents, a variation can be applied for and depending on the impact of that variation, it can be approved with no notification. I'd rather not use the pole, less concerned with the use of the two minor poles at Baycourt, but these were vandalised by mindless thugs. Personally, I rather folk focused on 'real threats' to democracy, I'd rather the Government prioritised, focused on the Christchurch rebuild at this time.
Informed Decision
Posted on 24-02-2016 13:56 | By Tga_Dweller
Good on TCC for wanting to give our community an opportunity to make an informed decision.
More about John Key than the flag
Posted on 24-02-2016 14:12 | By The Sage
This beast has a life of its own now. It is more about John Key leaving a legacy than a flag change. I object to the alternative flag even more, because of this very thing.
Can anybody...
Posted on 24-02-2016 15:24 | By morepork
...tell me please, why, if the budget is $5000 a year, the flag currently flying is old, dirty, tattered, and unappealing? To me this is just a disgusting bias on the part of those responsible. It is illegal to fly the proposed flag, so why would you do that? Wait until the new flag is ratified (or not) and THEN fly it.
stick to the rules
Posted on 24-02-2016 15:27 | By SEP
Thank you Rob. Stick to the rules TCC. Your job is not acting in a PR role for the PM's private projects.
Money
Posted on 24-02-2016 16:32 | By Kenworthlogger
As with all councils money bends rules.. Sorry that was meant to say gets successful consents issued. I have found that out first hand.... There are rules for important people with money like former all blacks and thre is rules for the rest of us...
middle fingered salute
Posted on 24-02-2016 18:14 | By Captain Sensible
John Key is like a dog that leaves it's 'mark' at every post. The marks he leaves are just the middle fingered salute to democracy.
Hoist by their own petard
Posted on 24-02-2016 18:15 | By Papamoaner
Proud of you Rob. Good on ya mate. Taking these wallies to task on a technicality is the language they understand.
I notice
Posted on 24-02-2016 19:33 | By Merlin
I notice from the comments on the flying of the alternative flag at Tauranga and Te Puke 90-95% are against these actions.SO LISTEN UP YOU WALLYS
flag
Posted on 24-02-2016 20:29 | By Ness
this confirms the council is full of government brown nose's
@ Morepork
Posted on 24-02-2016 20:58 | By Papamoaner
Right on there mate. The council wasted $900k on studying toy sirens. The $5k you mentioned is nothing to them
@ morepork
Posted on 24-02-2016 23:12 | By Crash test dummies
The $5,000 goes of officials sitting at a desk in some glass palace, writing reports, leaning on a pen, warming up the seat, coffee breaks and more .... but one thing does not happen that often, buy a new flag.
@ Papamoaner
Posted on 24-02-2016 23:15 | By Crash test dummies
That is true indeed for sure. However the cunning plan will be to rip through a consent in 5 minutes just because it suits them to apply, think about, approve and consent anything they themselves want at a whim ... No public input, nothing. They will have to seek public input (called the public consent process) but that will n to happen, even if it does the consent will have already been issued.
Other flag flying
Posted on 24-02-2016 23:35 | By Theodorus
Forget about this present new flag.Instead incorporate add the silver Fern onto the one we slready have then both parties will be satisfied.The old British sign in smaller version at the left top,stars at the right and the Silver Fern upwards on an angle in between.Problem solved!Theodorus.
@ Papamoaner
Posted on 25-02-2016 04:13 | By Crash test dummies
Its not their money so they do not give a stuff about wasting all of it.
Ignorance is bliss?
Posted on 25-02-2016 08:59 | By penguin
Quote Sunlive report above...
Still waiting for the flag referendum papers
Posted on 25-02-2016 09:00 | By Cydifor
When do we receive the new voting papers which were supposed to arrive in February? Perhaps the govt. thinks that by delaying the papers we will be pushed for time and many will not bother to send in their votes. Good on you Rob!
@Theodorus
Posted on 25-02-2016 12:38 | By Papamoaner
Replace the fern leaf with a KIWI and your suggestion would make sense. What the hell does a leaf mean in other countries? The KIWI is widely recognized (and respected)
Thanks...
Posted on 26-02-2016 14:15 | By morepork
... to those who confirmed that current flag is "tatty" and it isn't just my perception of it. As the official symbol of our land, and given a $5000 budget, we have a right to expect a flag in good repair to be flying. Sadly, waste in local Government is always going to happen, just as it does in National government. It seems that a "corporate culture" of disrespect for "other people s money" creeps in and the proper checks and balances are ignored. TCC should recognize the "alternate flag decision" is actually illegal, and instead, focus on getting a replacement for the poor tattered rag which is currently flying.
jmac
Posted on 26-02-2016 16:52 | By JohnMac
It is not just a flag it is the plan to become a republic. Change the flag change bank notes and we are on the way to dumping the commonwealth membership. Apart from that the flag is not much in fact it seems to become more crappie as we see it more.
@ morepork
Posted on 26-02-2016 17:15 | By Crash test dummies
I obvious answer to the tatty flag issue is that they do not expect to need to replace it, in fact they likely are already sold on it before the referendum. You need to understand that this is a typical result ex TCC, they always pick the least supported, least obvious answer even when it costs a fortune ... the more it costs over the top the more they like it. The proof is there: - $1500 to replace the existing flag, $26m NOT to change it.
SHAME on TCC!
Posted on 26-02-2016 17:45 | By Chapsmate
SHAME ON YOU Todd Muller for doing your master's bidding. SHAME ON YOU Stuart Crosbie for agreeing to break your own rules. SHAME ON YOU TCC for not having the guts to oppose this political move. Of COURSE it is aimed at influencinf the referendum; only an idiot would think otherwise. and as for labelling those who act out their views as Dirty Vandals, - isn't the right to protest one of our nations freedoms? LEAVE OUR NATIONAL FLAG FLYING - PROUDLY ALONE!
@ Chapsmate
Posted on 27-02-2016 15:51 | By Crash test dummies
Yes all so true and so normal activities of all those named, nothing changes.
@Tga_Dweller
Posted on 28-02-2016 16:46 | By penguin
Your quote:...
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