Limited view of race relations

People like C Humphreys and R Paterson (The Weekend Sun, June 1), and R McNair and N Mayo (The Weekend Sun, June 8) who want councillors who supported Maori wards to resign are taking a very limited view of race relations.

Those councillors were simply following decisions of Parliament that Maori should be represented in local government. As long as that government policy stands it was reasonable for councillors to support it, since Maori wards would make absolutely no difference to Pakeha voters at all.

The rejection of Maori wards in the voter poll does not mean that election unfairness to Maori should be ignored. Democracy is not automatically fair. General elections were made fairer in 1993 when the MMP system was introduced. We still have to change the law so that local elections are fair to Maori, because at present they are not.
P Dey, Welcome Bay.

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well said Mr Crazyhorse

Posted on 17-06-2018 11:38 | By the roofer

Thats was a great post crazyhorse (’Stupidity is usually harmless’). You hit the nail on the head a few times. The stuff about these useless hand wringing political apologists pretending to understand the "principles" when nobody has yet defined them and there is no mention of them in the Treaty. It’s easier to surrender our democracy than fight for it. So again, great stuff crazyhorse.

Crazyhorse, your list of so-called Maori privileges refutes nothing in the letter

Posted on 17-06-2018 11:01 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, the letter points out that local elections are unfair to Maori. Your list of so-called Maori privileges provides no evidence to refute the unfairness of local elections. You have lost the plot.

Crash Test Dummies, you do not understand democracy

Posted on 17-06-2018 10:57 | By Peter Dey

Crash Test Dummies, the letter does not criticise democracy at all. The letter simply points out that the local election system is democratic but unfair. Our justice system is based on fairness. It is reasonable for local councillors to support changing the local election voting system to make it fair for Maori. That is not undemocratic.

Crazyhorse, you are confused between racism and culture

Posted on 17-06-2018 10:46 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, it is not racism for Maori to retain their cultural identity and have this recognised in law, and to have differential treatment. Differential treatment is simply respect for Maori as Treaty partners. It is not racism. It is government policy that Maori should be represented in local government. You provide no evidence to refute this.

Stupidity is usually harmless

Posted on 16-06-2018 16:59 | By crazyhorse

Power is okay, and stupidity is usually harmless Power and stupidity together is dangerous". I have a deep and profound mistrust of all politicians our leaders know we’re turning into a giant "marae" and they are taking every last hubcap they can get their hands on before the rest of us wake up and realize what’s happened.” Labour or National party Political debate: when charlatans come together to discuss their "principles". People who know nothing but think they know everything, these are the people who we have in local government steering us towards separatism with maori wards. Truth is hard, propaganda is cheap.”“Fascism thrives in obscurity and darkness. ”Accepting fraud from our leaders means accepting fraud in our personal lives.”

Maori are no more racist,

Posted on 16-06-2018 16:19 | By R. Bell

than any other ethnic group. Different rights and privileges simply means they have the same rights and privileges in a different form. Since the 1980s that is what we have. Using extreme examples of social disorder, and ignoring the passive majority who contribute to society, simply underlines the prejudice shown by c.t.d. and crazyhorse. Robin Bell.


Posted on 16-06-2018 15:57 | By crazyhorse

K1W1’S have no choice over who their parents are. Birth is a lottery and that is what makes it so unfair. Two babies born on the same day, in the same town, in the same country, have different rights and privileges simply because of their race " imagined or not". Something needs to change, this is fact not fiction campers and remember you are the racists!!, believe it or not you do not have to apologise for being "white"".

Obsessed with compensation

Posted on 16-06-2018 15:54 | By crazyhorse

But it happened 170, Years ago," let it go", none of us were around then, there are no full maori left, I blame it on their scottish ancestry they are always keen on making a dollar, maybe Dutch as well,1/3% Dutch 1/322% maori the rest Scottish, maybe a little Indian too, gawd now I know what the trouble is, it’s not the part maori that’s treaty troughing off the NZ public, it’s the other bits, sorry Pete !!. how could I have got it so wrong LOL!.

Crazyhorse, Talk to Jim Bolger.

Posted on 16-06-2018 15:52 | By R. Bell

He is co-chair of the management of the Uruwera national park, along with Tuhoe. You cannot have Maori only JOINT management, it is a nonsense just like ALL your other Maori only MYTHS. Your claim that Maori would be unelected is a lie or myth whatever you choose. All of your so called Maori only initiatives are also available to non Maori in a different form. You totally ignore the fact that initiatives to improve Maori performance rather than a privilege, benefit all N.Zers, as do similar initiatives for non Maori. You ignore the simple fact that Maori were largely marginalised by the very attitudes you constantly display. Talk to Jim Bolger he’ll put you right. Robin Bell.


Posted on 16-06-2018 15:48 | By crazyhorse

Racism is giving one racial group different rights and privileges to others. It is differential treatment on the basis of race. That is what Maori are "continually" looking for. I do not believe there should be rights over "our" fresh water or seats on councils and local authorities based on ancestry, and I think most K1W1"s would agree. We want to live in an egalitarian country, not one where your rights are determined by who your parents are. That’s what the old style British class system was based on. It’s also what Nazi Germany was based on. If Maori keep pushing they will certainly see a backlash. But the backlash will be egalitarian, not racist; it is the Maori position which is racist.

@ R Bell

Posted on 16-06-2018 13:48 | By Crash test dummies

Perhaps a good lesson for you (enlightenment) would be to visit Otara or around Onehunga on a Friday or Saturday evening, open your eyes and experience the full on level of race based activities... standard life for many is: - go have a feed, a beer, fight a few bros, go home drunk and beat up the misses... Guess what, the fights are almost always between part maori and islanders. No red coats to be seen anywhere!

@ R Bell

Posted on 16-06-2018 13:45 | By Crash test dummies

You say "gutless prejudice" perhaps that is right, but it is a simple case of cause and effect, if you desire and champion separatism and minorty preferences then what else do you expect to result from it?

Dey-Bell dont want democracy?

Posted on 16-06-2018 13:27 | By Crash test dummies

They want an aparthied based system, where everyone gets a vote apparently but the results are predetermined. Perhaps they would fit in a lot better in Moscow under the Putin regime rather than here? They dont see the path, they dont see the end result for what it is.

@ Captain Sensible

Posted on 16-06-2018 13:25 | By Crash test dummies

So true, the mindset is entrenched, single issue, one-eyed and more. The views expressed by RB and PD are only ever going to be happy with a race-based dictator who is absolutely loving Aparthied.

What unfairness?

Posted on 16-06-2018 13:22 | By Crash test dummies

The unfairness is not what you think it is: example: The RBOP elections saw near 20,000 votes required for a Tauranga candidate to be elected and merely 590 for a part moari to be elected. Is that "fair"? Me thinks not so!

@ P Dey

Posted on 16-06-2018 13:20 | By Crash test dummies

Nursing also displays the same issues, a "quota" of part maori are required of nursing students. They are told you will get in... also that you dont need to worry about passing, you will... What lessons are being then taught to all parts of our community?

@ P Dey

Posted on 16-06-2018 13:19 | By Crash test dummies

A good example is the drop in teaching standards, there are two prime reasons that go hand in hand: a mandatory intake of part maori (irrespective of results, ability etc) and a lack of accountability of teachers performance. It is clear that these desperately held policies are detrimental to all kids as the benchmark achievable by the average teacher is dropping so the results of kids drops also. This concept maybe unpaletteable to you but the reality is there to be seen, shoudl you care to look.

@ P Dey

Posted on 16-06-2018 13:16 | By Crash test dummies

you say "Maori do not get elected", perhaps you should be asking "why" rather than imposing aparthied upon what otherwise is meant to be a democracy. If merit and ability are important then the public at large will in the end get there. Perhaps that is the downfall here for it all.

Crash Test Dummies, you do not understand the letter

Posted on 16-06-2018 10:39 | By Peter Dey

Crash Test Dummies, the letter points out that even though the result of voting is democratic, our justice system is based on fairness. A system in which Maori do not get elected is unfair. We have made our general elections more fair. We still have an unfair system for local elections, so it needs to be made more fair. Bering democratic does not change that at all.

Captain Sensible, your slogans are irrational

Posted on 16-06-2018 10:33 | By Peter Dey

Captain Sensible, do us the courtesy of trying to justify the slogans that you use. Describing changing an unfair voting system for local elections as segregation, apartheid, and race based privileges is irrational if you have no credible argument to back your slogans.

maori privileges

Posted on 16-06-2018 10:32 | By crazyhorse

A special Maori Authority tax rate of 17.5 percent, * A special Maori-only exemption to allow blood relatives to qualify for charitable status, * Maori language funding, * Maori radio and TV, * Maori-only seats on local councils, * Maori-only appointments onto local government committees, * Maori-only local government Statutory Boards, * Maori-only local government advisory committees, * Maori seats in Parliament Maori-only schools, * Special Maori content in the education curriculum, * Maori-only education scholarships, * Maori-only housing projects, * Maori-only health initiatives, * Maori-only welfare initiatives, * Maori-only prisoner programmes, * Maori-only positions on government agencies, * Maori-only consultation rights under the Resource Management Act, * Maori-only co-management of parks, rivers, lakes, and the coastline, * Maori-only ownership rights to the foreshore and seabed and still we need more privileges because we are special!, we are going to control your council suck it up and deal withit.

Captain Sensible, removing unfairness is not privilege

Posted on 16-06-2018 10:27 | By Peter Dey

Captain Sensible you do not provide any credible challenge to what is in the letter. If you cannot refute what is written you should stop wasting our time by using apartheid and segregation as meaningless abuse.


Posted on 16-06-2018 10:26 | By crazyhorse

Just like Pete hides the "lie" about full and final treaty settlements he hides the fact that "giving" unelected maori seats on council is just another way of giving them governance over of the majority, !Water ’ownership", unelected maori on council , ownership, oops sorry co-governance of the entire coastline, it’s just the start campers! “The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way, the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed.” ― Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

We still have to change the law for maori say's Pete

Posted on 16-06-2018 10:13 | By crazyhorse

How many laws have already been changed "for maori" , how many maori only laws and policies do "we" need, we are not talking about a long lost tribe from the Amazon rain forest, but, simply a small group of people with "traces" of maori blood who associate with maori or being maori, has anybody noticed with Pete and the apologists that nothing "we" do is ever any good for maori, but, anything maori,say want, or demand as in unelected seats on council is just dandy for the "rest of us", the other 85% of us?.

The unfairness resides

Posted on 15-06-2018 16:26 | By R. Bell

in the majority, and its inability to recognise that unfairness. Whether that inability is due to prejudice, indifference or lack of vision is unclear. In any event anti Maori sentiment is always just bellow the surface of the majority. Events over the last week, with the recording of abuse of a Maori customer, by staff of a local car dealership, just one more example of gutless prejudice, unreported by Sunlive. Prejudice is not democratic. Robin Bell.

CTD, Maori do not get elected. The system is unfair

Posted on 15-06-2018 15:44 | By Peter Dey

CTD, you do not deny that councillors who supported Maori wards were simply being fair to the whole community, not just Pakeha, and were supporting government policy on Maori representation on local councils.

a long time ago

Posted on 15-06-2018 15:22 | By Captain Sensible

I urge people not to waste their time arguing with a simpleton who is all for race based privileges. Sadly, he has no idea that acceptance of segregation and apartheid was a long time ago.

No election unfairness to Maori

Posted on 15-06-2018 11:35 | By Crash test dummies

The the election result is clear, the majority has spoken. As for unfairness, that issue ironically has also be clearly voted on also. The results are clear, democracy has spoken

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