Unbelievable racism

 

The Maori Party say a cultural impact assessment clause in Auckland’s Draft Unitary Plan is a good idea, and that people focusing on race and cost are missing the big picture.

Te Ururoa Flavell, Maori Party Co-leader says “the provision in the plan to seek a cultural impact assessment from mana whenua on certain sites tagged for development is a good thing. It’s good because Maori have knowledge, history and a unique cultural perspective that can and will add value to our resource management decisions.”

“We are, however, shocked and disappointed with some of the reactions to the proposal. It tells us that our Maori culture, our knowledge, and our history are still treated as second class here in Aotearoa.”

“To assume that there is no value in what mana whenua have to offer, or to instantly dismiss issues of cultural significance and the role that plays in resource management are clear examples of racism. Institutional racism,” says Mr Flavell.

Tariana Turia says “this is also a Treaty issue. It’s about tangata whenua having a right to participate in decision making over our natural resources.”

“For too long local Councils have denied, avoided and side stepped their obligations under Te Tiriti o Waitangi. Well it is time to step up. It’s time to challenge the status quo and make it more inclusive of tangata whenua and our rights as indigenous people of Aotearoa, and we commend Auckland Council for their courage in taking this step on behalf of the nation.

“We encourage more New Zealanders to learn about our history to get a better perspective on this issue.

“This is also about the principles of good decision making in resource management. It’s obvious that developers want to build as cheaply and as quickly as possible, well sorry, private profit hardly seems like the foundation of good decision making, especially when you are talking about developments that will impact on multiple generations of New Zealanders.

“We welcome the inclusion of cultural considerations in Auckland’s Draft Unitary Plan and the input of the Independent Maori Statutory Board in this debate. We also acknowledge the long history that hapu and iwi have in managing our resources and the vital role they play as tangata tiaki,” says Mrs Turia.

Source: Maori Party.


80 Comments

THAT WAS MY

Posted on 30-03-2014 19:03 | By crazyhorse

(1)Quote Bell {.The irony, in this latest effort by crazy is that Sharon Holts series of books and C.ds is used extensively in Kohanga Reo.}, exactly, this is how she is repaid, with "racism". (2)Quote Bell,{There are many examples of Maori being excluded,}. Give us one princess!.

Te Kura Pounamu awards

Posted on 29-03-2014 21:28 | By robin bell

exist to encourage Maori to participate in areas where they are under -represented.That some see that as racist is very sad,but then everything involving Maori development,is seen as a racist conspiracy.The irony, in this latest effort by crazy is that Sharon Holts series of books and C.ds is used extensively in Kohanga Reo.Sharon was a finalist in the 2012 Maori Language Awards.Dame Susan Devoy found nothing untoward in her exclusion from Te Kura Pounamu awards.This Rats and Mice attempt to prove "racism"in reverse,is further proof of his bigotry.There are many examples of Maori being excluded,most are now historical,thanks to our positive,enlightened attitude.Crazyhorse and friends would reverse this.Robin Bell.

Unbelievable racism

Posted on 29-03-2014 15:31 | By crazyhorse

Bell, name one organisation, sporting event, or award, that New Zealanders have set up or organised and do not allow Maori to participate in, just one???????.

Unbelievable racism

Posted on 29-03-2014 14:52 | By crazyhorse

Quote from Bell,{There is no racism expressed or implied in any "pro Maori" commentry}An author of a popular Maori children’s book series was excluded from entering a national library award because she is white. Te Reo Singalong creator Sharon Holt was told she could not enter the Te Kura Pounamu Award for children’s literature because she had no Maori blood.

Whakapapa,

Posted on 29-03-2014 14:08 | By robin bell

is how Maori are determined,my challenge to crazyhoss is,show the world,evidence,thats "evidence as in proof"that anyone in N.Z.claiming to be Maori,is in fact not.The United Nations.Thats 200 nations,has determined that intermarriage is no barrier to ethnicity.Thats 7 billion people,except of course crazy and friends.There is no racism expressed or implied in any pro Maori commentry.The reverse cannot be said of the ’mutual admiration society’represented by crazy and friends.Robin Bell.

Sad Facts for Murray,

Posted on 29-03-2014 10:45 | By robin bell

Most of what you say is correct.Problem is it doesn’t solve anything.For over 50yrs N.Z.has moved slowly toward a fair and just,bi-cultural nation,embracing multiculturism on the way.You will see in C/horses latest rant that prejudice is deeply entrenched in some.His assertion that the institutions he names are Maori only,is incorrect.Many Pakeha attend Wananga for instance.Likewise,with others.In any event considering gov’t spending is approaching 120 billion the figures he quotes are emotive,misleading and intended to undermine the process.The character assasinations he and others undertake are similar in nature.Diplomacy is a wonderfull thing Murray,but sadly it won’t work with people like crazy and friends.Robin Bell.

Unbelievable racism Murray Guy

Posted on 29-03-2014 09:36 | By crazyhorse

We’re a multi-cultural society now. You hit the nail on the head Murray, and yes some of the comments get out of hand and at times racist, "from both sides", "part" Maori make up around 14% of the population, I say part because there are no full blood Maori left and a lot of this 14% if challenged to prove they were in fact "Maori" {COULDN’T} this is "fact" the people who comment on SunLive some times don’t get their facts straight but are all frustrated at what’s happening in "our" country, perhaps you would like to comment on the separatist system for part Maori and the cost, or the fraud that the National gov’t is trying to cover up in the Kohango Reo at the moment, 94 million dollars for 9000 kid’s, only weeks before treaty troughing lawyer Mae Chen wanting complete autonomy for Kohango Reo, frustration Murry.

SAD FACTS FOR YOU MURRAY

Posted on 29-03-2014 08:45 | By crazyhorse

The real cost of Maori only gov’t funded organisations is out of control why is it so hard to find out the real costs, or, where it’s going. Requests for spending details for the 2012-13 year under the Official Information Act revealed Te Wananga o Aotearoa receives about $170-million, Te Puni Kokiri spends $205-million, kohanga reo language nest pre-schools receive $67.5 million with $2.64 million for administration, Whanau Ora takes $49-million. The “economic base for Maori” treaty settlements industry meant that in the 2012-13 year Vote Treaty Negotiations consumed $519.97-million, and the Waitangi Tribunal took $10.7-million out of the Courts budget. Waikato River co-governance costs $16-million a year. Environmental accords and other co-management cost a further $6-million. The" 177" Maori social service providers around New Zealand could chew through $1.7-billion each year. Joint ventures with tribal corporations for social housing will open up another trough worth millions.

Far vremoved from reality - SAD!

Posted on 28-03-2014 10:58 | By Murray.Guy

Reading the posts, reading the article, grossly distorted accounts, opinions expressed as facts from all sides of the argument. Human nature is to embellish a little, but the extreme straight out lies serves no purpose other than ’turn me off and away’! The moment anyone expresses a concern, a contrary opinion, - arrk, it’s a ’Treaty issue, racism ... The moment anyone suggests recognition from a cultural perspective it’s Maori wanting something for nothing, we also have residents from Outer Mongolia, we’re a multi-cultural society now ... “We are, however, shocked and disappointed with some of the reactions to the proposal. It tells us that our Maori culture, our knowledge, and our history are still treated as second class here in Aotearoa.” “To assume that there is no value in what mana whenua have to offer, or to instantly dismiss issues ... are clear examples of racism."

Morepork

Posted on 25-03-2014 18:12 | By YOGI BEAR

You are correct the trail of claims have been going on for more that a century, and on each circuit they become more and more ridiculous and some. Fancy the Government paying $10m to a central NZ settlement for loss of free for all eating rights of the neighbor. Where does this crazy-mun behavior come from and when will it end?

Reparations

Posted on 25-03-2014 12:47 | By YOGI BEAR

yes you are correct Robin, reparations for all the murderer women and children of the settlors at the hand of guess who! I guess that you will consider that they were privileged or something because they did not end up in the cooking pot, at least most didn’t.

Jeromy Murkin

Posted on 25-03-2014 08:59 | By YOGI BEAR

"Mr" Janet Wilmshurst, the expert on anything Maori funded research, where the process is simple ... "you dream it i’ll write it".

morepork,

Posted on 24-03-2014 21:57 | By robin bell

I understand why you do not wish to continue.The future of N.Z.will be far better served by reparations than by ignoring the problem.We are a trading nation,as such we need the goodwill of our trading partners.If you want an example of how sensitive some can be,consider China and the Fonterra scare,with all its reactionary ramifications.In 40yrs as an exporter I can tell you goodwill is a fragile commodity.You may not be racist,but your actions in denying Maori rights will be seen as such.One reason for Japan going to war was in protest at the inaction of Britain and the U.S.influencing Australia and N.Z.to drop thier immigration policies denying Asians entry.Robin Bell.

MR BELL

Posted on 24-03-2014 19:36 | By crazyhorse

Maori asked for the treaty not the Poms bell, the main reason was to protect maori from maori,that’s why you never bite on my reuse of Wi Kuki Kaa in Te Putatara 5/90 of 21st May 1990: Tai Rawhiti and elsewhere were still smarting from the humiliations inflicted on us by Cyclone Hongi, Cyclone Pomare or Cyclone Patuone. “The Tai Tokerau people were becoming prosperous – a situation which only thrives in a climate of peace. what were these "cyclones" doing, this is why maori wanted and "needed" the TOW. Beating killing and eating each other is what the treaty and the English stopped, weather you like it or not this is what happened in the real history of NZ not the revisionist #### they push down our throats these days. If you believe in what you read of history these days I bet you still believe in santa clau

AWAROA THE SEAFARER

Posted on 24-03-2014 15:30 | By Jeromy Murkin

Contemporary claims now,no wonder crazy is jumping up and down, Last week Radio NZ ran the following story on Waatea News: “The Crown is being asked to commit $1 billion to Maori social services. Waiwhetu Marae in Lower Hutt says Treaty settlements have dealt with historical breaches, but not social grievances… Marae chair Neville Baker says there have been some discussions about taking a contemporary claim to the Waitangi Tribunal. Is this suggestion of social grievance claims a signal of where the Treaty industry might be heading? If such a suggestion attracts little public opposition, will that be taken as tacit approval and lead to an avalanche of such claims against the taxpayers, (social grievances) like you smoke, are fat,family violence, turn to crime, scribble all over your face and can not get a job,that is our fault now, and the waitangi tribunal rolls on,great eh awaroa the seafarer.

AWAROA THE SEAFARER

Posted on 24-03-2014 14:44 | By Jeromy Murkin

I am impressed awaroa, your Uncle is an archaeologist, perhaps he was one of the archaeologists that I read about in the weekend , there is now no doubt maori wiped the moa out, probably with all the burning that went on I guess, though your going to tell me that warm fuzzy story about how environmentally maori were, you sound like a knowledgeable man awaroa the seafarer fill us in, do you want to find out about what really went on way back then, here is the site for Moa were hunted into extinction by humans - study. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11223987

@Robin Bell (last from me)

Posted on 24-03-2014 13:25 | By morepork

1. My problem? Has nothing to do with Racism. The country cannot AFFORD the infinite ongoing process of reparation. The "reperations" (sic) are NOT almost over and as CrazyHorse pointed out, they probably never will be. 2. The people you named as "land sharks" were NOT representing the Crown (which was my point). Hobson was. 3. I never suggested (and do not believe) that Maori "begged for the Treaty", but I submit that the descendants of many who signed it are very pleased they did. 4. Yes, it is good to see Maori businesses thriving and Maori doing well. But I’d like to see that for ALL NZers of ALL ethnicity. We need a level playing field (with assistance for those who REALLY need it; the NEEDY, NOT the GREEDY) in order for that to happen. The Treaty agreement prevents it, so it should be replaced. Fairness for ALL!

Dairy farms,Fisheries,Forrestry

Posted on 24-03-2014 09:12 | By crazyhorse

Yeah I had forgotten about that, Ngapuhi "given" around 60 million dollars worth of sea lord to bring work to the far north, set up fish processing plants, would have brought jobs and wealth to the area, what did the top honcho’s do, sold out to the japanese, no jobs no wealth, you didn’t mention they use migrant workers, paying them next to nothing and not letting them off the boats in port. Maori fishing quota holders are exempt from legislation designed to protect migrant workers on foreign chartered vessels from exploitation. "Parliament’s known about this abuse going back to the early 1990s, they have failed their responsibilities to people who are not in a position to do anything about their own situation themselves and I just think it’s bloody appalling, oh and all"maori" ,Dairy farms,Fisheries,Forrestry pay "no" tax, how can non maori business compete they pay millions in"tax".

If you must know jeromy

Posted on 23-03-2014 22:35 | By awaroa

.. I hail directly from a long line of seafarers so naturally seafaring knowledge is in my blood.. My Uncle is an archaeologist - yes that’s with a PhD at the end of his name and a "Dr" in front. Anything else you want to challenge, attempt to discredit?? Ka aroha

CONTEMPORARY CLAIMS NOW????

Posted on 23-03-2014 14:09 | By crazyhorse

The message put forward by iwi and "their" treaty troughing lawyers now runs like this. Treaty claims will never end. For one reason or another past settlements of claims weren’t good enough. It might just be because we want more now, and we’re breaking our word, but that doesn’t matter because we’ve got the Treaty, and it says we can do anything. If we want more and more then we’re entitled to have it and we’re going to have it, and there’s going to be trouble if we don’t. Nothing else is ‘justice’. And even if at some future time we do decide we won’t make another claim, that’s not the end of the story, because then the Crown and Maori just move on into a ‘new phase in their relationship’. You are never going to escape us, and our desires are insatiable. Land, wealth, power, the works.

I hate to tell you,

Posted on 23-03-2014 12:30 | By robin bell

morepork but you are very wrong.The influencial William Wentworth was involved in massive land speculation prior to the treaty.Wakefield,and the N.Z.Company claimed 20 million acres.W.B.Rhodes,Kapiti,Banks Peninsula,Wellington and most of Hawkes Bay.Daniel Cooper,133,000 Hectares of Hawkes Bay.It was out of control.It was Busby who allerted the Colonial Office to the problem.In turn the settlers complained about Busby.Yes, the French were also a threat,but the claim by many,that the treaty was implemented because Maori begged for it is wrong.It serves only to mislead.The process of reperations for stolen land is almost over.Maori are contributing to the economy,Dairy farms,Fisheries,Forrestry like never before.Whats your problem?Robin Bell.

Wi Kuki Kaa in Te Putatara 5/90 of 21st May 1990:

Posted on 23-03-2014 10:27 | By crazyhorse

I resent the implication that the Kahui Ariki at Waitangi 1840 didn‘t quite know what they were about. E hika ma! They weren‘t dumb; they were learned men, products of missionary education. They wanted, because they needed it, a document to create some form of law and order: to protect themselves from the rapaciousness of the re-settlers whose material goods had helped to improve their standard of living; but also from those of us in the Tai Rawhiti and elsewhere still smarting from the humiliations inflicted on us by Cyclone Hongi, Cyclone Pomare or Cyclone Patuone. “The Tai Tokerau people were becoming prosperous – a situation which only thrives in a climate of peace.

@Robin Bell

Posted on 22-03-2014 16:15 | By morepork

There is no connection between myself and YOGIBEAR (although I always read his posts). You are talking about "land sharks" without having any idea who they were or what offical capacity they were in. I was talking about GOVERNMENT in the person of GOVERNOR Hobson, under instruction from a GOVERNMENT (representing the Crown) back in England. In other words, official business, not carpetbaggers and con men. It was this "official business" which led to the hasty framing of the Treaty and the very real concern that a strategically placed colony could be lost to the French. Even if you were right (and you are wrong about this) it doesn’t alter the fact that TODAY the Treaty is a millstone around all our necks and simply holds everyone back because we can’t AFFORD it. NZ is the MOST diverse nation on earth. We SHOULD be an example. Fairness for ALL!

Very dubious INDEED!

Posted on 20-03-2014 11:00 | By crazyhorse

How were those sites verified as being significant?, the majority are not. Archaeologists have spoken out on the Auckland unitary plan and said as much. Maori Heritage Committee, as you said someone needs to ask who’s it run by, who’s it run "for", maybe the same people who got the unitary plan "pushed" through. Auckland Council * Independent Maori Statutory Board * Ngati Whatua * Maori Party

Significant Sites

Posted on 19-03-2014 20:07 | By NZJustMeNZ

Someone high up needs to look into NZ Historic Places Trust- in particular the Maori Heritage Committee. Their process of designating sites of significance is very dubious. Any landowners are allowed to comment but no landowner is allowed to be seen or heard at meetings. So Wahitapu get pushed through without landowners knowing whether any committee members read their comments/submissions or not. Was it even discussed or just pushed through? Supposedly the "Maori" way is face to face. Well I can say from experience that does not happen at all. Very worrying for landowners with "significant" sites in Auckland isn’t it??? How were those sites verified as being significant? Did someone just point and say "That’s sacred" "So is that" or were they properly verified by independent archaeologists?

My opinion,

Posted on 19-03-2014 09:19 | By robin bell

mr bear,is irrelevent,yours is even less relevent,your anonymous.My "facts" emanate from totally reliable gov’nt sources.Yours of course don’t.Yours emanate from the anonymous world you exist in.Get your friend morepork to check out some factual history.In 1839-40 landsharks claimed to have purchased an area,far exeeding the total land area of N.Z.and he claims it wasnt about land.What a joke you all are.Robin Bell.

Robin

Posted on 18-03-2014 08:58 | By YOGI BEAR

It is not ’truth’ it is your opinion and they are very different things indeed.

awaroa

Posted on 15-03-2014 09:23 | By Jeromy Murkin

So your not only an expert on polynesian sea faring you people are pretty good at archaeology as well,trained people have already said most of these sigts are just rubbish dumps, you surely can not expect people to spend money every time 1 of your ancestors stopped to eat a some one and leave a few bones, is it a grave yard or a hangi, regardless money talks,even the archaeologist them selves have had enough of you. Using racism to make money, becoming very common, and no itis not racist just to complain about it,(Ka aroha)

BRENDA

Posted on 15-03-2014 00:03 | By crazyhorse

MAYBE YOU SHOULD ASK BELL, WHAT’S THE ALTERNATIVE?????????.

It must be hard..

Posted on 14-03-2014 21:31 | By awaroa

for the ignorant to understand a complex framework like the RMA. Must be even harder for the racists to accept the particular sensitivities the Act affords Maori. Ka aroha.

Brenda,

Posted on 14-03-2014 12:14 | By robin bell

"a bit of a raw deal"How easily you dismiss the truth.There are hundreds even thousands of similar examples of blatant theft.Everyone needs to move on,but not at the expense once again of Maori rights.It simply won’t work.You are wrong not to connect "what is happening in Auckland"It is part of the healing process.You will find Brenda,as will others,that if you drop your paranoia,and try goodwill people will respond positively.I know from personal experience.I also know that some will find that difficult.I think you will agree,its better than the alternative.Robin Bell.

@Robin Bell

Posted on 13-03-2014 14:49 | By morepork

I see you fiercely defending an emotional view here and I don’t intend to add to the noise. However, there are some matters of simple fact that you are missing: 1. Britain was not looking at NZ in 1840 as a "land grab"; it was more about a strategic base that could be lost to the French (and nearly was...). 2. Maori were guaranteed (and mostly accepted) EQUALITY under the terms of the Treaty, NOT superiority as a privileged unelected elite. 3. Everyone who objects to what is currently happening is NOT a racist (I’m not; I actually value Maoritanga as an essential part of our Kiwi culture). 4. We simply cannot AFFORD the "reparations" which are being claimed and it has set back our development as a nation by decades. That affects EVERYBODY, including Maori. 5. It was Abe Lincoln not Winston Churchill who spoke about fooling people.

Robin

Posted on 13-03-2014 12:09 | By Brenda

Just because some Maori have had a bit of a raw deal on one or two issues, as have the rest of us, does not mean that every other claim they make is also true. Nor does it justify their claims to rights over other peoples private property rights. And neither of the issues you spoke of have anything to do with what is happening in Auckland, and very soon the rest of the country.

Archaeologists oppose rule!!

Posted on 13-03-2014 00:13 | By crazyhorse

The New Zealand Archaeological Association says the rule requiring owners to obtain a cultural impact assessment from iwi to work on their land will impose considerable costs and erode public support for archaeology. in a submission on the draft Unitary Plan, signed by association president Simon Bickler, the association has serious concerns, saying most of the 3661 sites of significance and value to mana whenua have not even been assessed, many have limited archaeological significance, many have already been destroyed and protection rules already exist under the Historic Places Act.and still On the sidelines saying nothing National,"why" because they already had done the deal with the maori party!!!!wake up campers before it’s to late!!!.

Feudal overlords?

Posted on 11-03-2014 20:47 | By MichaelAngelo

This is NOT a debate between Maori and Pakeha. It is very local issue between you and your neighbour down the road who argues that they have rights to your land and surrounds based on historical precedence. When I drilled a deep bore and applied for a water consent I discover there are three family groups in my area who have lived here a long time and believe they should have control over this water. This is a surprise to me because my activity does not affect them and I am confused by their “cultural” argument because to a large extent I share their culture. I believe I have the same right to this resource as any other citizen, according to a Regional Plan which has included consultation with Maori. These local groups have a right to defend their self-interest through proper channels but are not my feudal overlords!

Jimmy,

Posted on 11-03-2014 16:20 | By robin bell

Fair enough,my offer is still open.Taking it out on Maori,will not help your situation much I’m afraid.Robin Bell.

Mary

Posted on 11-03-2014 12:43 | By YOGI BEAR

Nothing much is it, hardly noticeable ... looks to be about everything that could possibly exist .

Brenda,

Posted on 11-03-2014 12:05 | By robin bell

As you well know 2+2 does not =5,nor does 1 lie+1 lie = the truth.Your friend mr bear claims events since 1975 do not relate to history, a farce.In 1977 Bastion Point was occupied, why? well the absolute truth is that Ngati Whatua reserve land was gradually being stolen by compulsory "acquisition"(fancy name for theft).They eventually got some land back.In 1981 land taken during world war 2 for a military air field at Raglan, was returned,but only after long and bitter protest,during which Maori were vilifyed.The Crown gave it,not to its owners,but to local council to turn into a golf course.I suggest Brenda,that it is you and your blind friends who need a history lesson or three.Robin Bell.

Maori only Privileges

Posted on 10-03-2014 16:06 | By Mary Faith

Maori only initiatives funded fully or partly by you: The New Zealand Public Health and Disability Act 2000 has clauses giving Maori priority for health treatment. The Resource Management Act has clauses giving tribal elites veto power in building and development. Maori only Schools. Maori only education scholarships. Maori only housing projects. Maori only prisoner programmes. Maori only positions in government agencies. Maori only consultation rights under the RMA. Maori only co-management of parks, rivers, lakes and coastline. Maori only seats on some local councils. Maori only local government statutory boards. Maori only local government liaison committees. Maori only seats in parliament. Maori only welfare (Whanau Ora)..... and the list goes on! NOT RACISM??

NZ Sux

Posted on 09-03-2014 23:45 | By BennyBenson

Yaaaaawn!

Brenda

Posted on 09-03-2014 16:05 | By YOGI BEAR

You are right in your scribing, sadly the "other" person is not and you are wasting time trying to convince him at least. But for the rest of us logical, thinking and non indoctrinated folk you reinforce what we all know to be correct. Sadly events of late (since 1975 especially) don’t relate to the history of NZ and are just a white wash/farce designed around extracting money for no good reason at all except self benefit of a few at the cost of the many.

Robin

Posted on 09-03-2014 15:29 | By Brenda

You obviously do not know our history, or you would not be making the ridiculous claims you are. Your tone is very insulting and you presume too much. You do not know me or my friends. You can always tell when someone’s lost an argument, they start attacking the person instead of discussing the issue. The trouble with your broad brush approach to history, is that too many people stand to gain financially by claiming 2+2=5 and such like. I have no time for revisionists or separatists alike. NZ is becoming more and more an apartheid country.

Not a

Posted on 09-03-2014 11:44 | By MichaelAngelo

I was bought up Ng?puhi 50 to 60 years ago, my parents were honouree Kaumatua, my mother a Maori Warden. This part of my culture is not recognised because I am not local Iwi, and I am not considered to have Maori blood, although I share common ancestry around 12,000 years ago, a similar timescale to indigenous people elsewhere in the world. My son is descended from the French settlers as are many local Maori. My domestic water bore is 580m deep, this water has no “culture” and has had no historical use. In fact the water comes from a different region. However it is hot water so has potential commercial value to whoever can claim it. Local Iwi consider themselves the guardians of this resource but this does not differ from my environmental or spiritual beliefs. Traditional Maori culture that I remember was inclusive.

Brenda,

Posted on 09-03-2014 09:49 | By robin bell

thank you for your ’version" of history,I can assure you my reading on the subject is at least as broard as your own.I never claimed Hobson didn’t utter those words,I merely suggest the were incongruous.Some historians suggest that from a Maori perspective the events of 1820-1840 including the Treaty,clearly became part of a negotiated relationship and not the begining of European power,and the end of Maori sovereignty.I know that does not fit your "world view" Brenda,the sad thing about "history"is that it cannot be relied on totally.It has to be "understood"in a broard brush way.For that of course you need a broard mind,not a common thing amongst your group of friends.Exploration,Christian conversion,settlers,troops,subjugation,control.France,Ireland,N.America,Africa,India,Australia,New Zealand.Its the way It was.Entrenching the Bill of Rights is only an anathema to those who oppose universal suffrage and justice for minorities.Robin Bell.

Authorities need to take responsibility.

Posted on 09-03-2014 09:32 | By MichaelAngelo

I recently put in a bore in the Te Puna Area and had to apply for a water right. At the end of the process I was told all resource consents were being arbitrarily blocked by Iwi to force consultation and it was suggested I would have to do a “cultural report” (koha). I refused pointing out it is illegal under the RMA to challenge applications without valid reason. But then I realised I had already been touched up by Pakeha being forced by Regional Council to spend $3k on a scientific report giving information they should have already known. Consultation and allocation of resource are supposed to be part of a Regional plan covered by the consent fees not a gravy train for consultants or Maori. Authorities need to take greater responsibility for having a robust process.

Krazzz Stead

Posted on 08-03-2014 09:30 | By YOGI BEAR

Agree, it is and there is. No escape from the obvious here.

Crazyhorse

Posted on 07-03-2014 23:08 | By Brenda

I agree with you. Geoffrey Palmer is a very dangerous man.

continued

Posted on 07-03-2014 23:07 | By Brenda

The Queen had no power to enforce any laws in NZ to protect anybody unless NZ became a colony under England’s protection/flag. Actually, after the Treaty was signed, we actually became a part of Australia, and it was many years later that Queen Victoria’s royal charter separated us from Aus and made us a colony in our own right. You really should learn our real history, Robin.

Robin

Posted on 07-03-2014 23:03 | By Brenda

"We are now one people" is exactly what Hobson said to each chief as he signed the treaty. Learn your history. The Treaty gave Maori the same rights and protection as British Citizens. No more, no less. And Britian did not colonise New Zealand because they wanted more land. In fact they didn’t want NZ at all. In 1831, 13 Maori chiefs petitioned the King of England for a representative of the British Crown to be sent to NZ to establish law and order. Britian had ended it’s period of colonising other countries and did not really want to come here. It took until 1840, and a change of monarch in England, and a lot of persuasion, for Queen Victoria to finally do something. When she did it was because there were already a lot of pakeha settling here, sealers and whalers and escaped convicts...tbc

SHE'LL BE RIGHT MATE!!!

Posted on 07-03-2014 20:16 | By crazyhorse

Constitutional lawyer and former Prime Minister Sir Geoffrey Palmer calling for the abolition of the Citizens’ Initiated Referendum Act. In his article Sir Geoffrey recommends radical changes such as entrenching the Bill of Rights in a new written constitution (to put lawyers and judges in charge of law-making in New Zealand). This from the man who helped set up the "treaty of waitangi gravy train", then went on to make million’s of dollars off the "industry"as a lawyer!!!, not happy with that, now he want’s to take away the voice of the other 85% of New Zealanders. People need to have a good look at what’s happening around the country, Chris Finlayson {treaty negotiator for national} stepping in with local iwi to stop citizens and council ""legally""as in court!! questioning the give away of land concerning them, They are going to cut your rights off completely{NO REFERENDUM}APARTHEID.

Overit

Posted on 07-03-2014 15:28 | By overit

Hey Robin please explain to me about what happened to the Moriori in NZ again.

He Iwi Tahi Tatou,

Posted on 07-03-2014 10:42 | By robin bell

We are now one people,"Bollocks"anyone who claims to believe that,is blind or stupid.Why would the elite Empire builders want to become one,with a bunch of"savages"?your word not mine.The Treaty gave nothing to Maori,but protection from rapacious land grabbers and foriegn powers.It gave Britain what it wanted,Land.The One N.Z.foundation,elitist,ultra right wing,failed political entity and avowed enemy of Maori aspirations and human rights.Outspoken supporters of Allan Titford and Rankin spin.Winston Churchill sumned it all up best.You can fool all of the people some of the time,and some of the people all of the time,but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.Crazyhorse,get your head out of that bucket of "sour Kraut"sic.Your hot "air" is becoming ridiculous.Robin Bell.

Krazzz Stead

Posted on 07-03-2014 10:16 | By YOGI BEAR

Agree, it is and there is. No escape from the obvious here.

NEW ZEALAND IN CRISIS

Posted on 06-03-2014 21:07 | By crazyhorse

“He iwi tahi taou – We are now one people” In 1840 Governor Hobson signed the Tiriti o Waitangi on behalf of Queen Victoria with over 500 chiefs who agreed to, “All the rights will given to them (Maori) the same as her doings for the people of England”. "" This Agreement has been broken.""but by who?. If you want an "honest" account of what happened, get on this site and read on. http://onenzfoundation.co.nz/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/NEW-ZEALAND-IN-CRISIS-_Book-Contents_3.pdf

Jitter,

Posted on 06-03-2014 21:01 | By robin bell

The gulf between you,your friends and the Maori of N.Z.is stunning,but not unprecedented on a global scale.Indoctrination is a terrible thing.The U.N.charter on Indigenous rights is clear,Intermarriage is no barrier to ethnicity.You are of mixed race,yet chose to identify as one.You or your ancestors made a choice.Maori make that choice.They do not want ,nor can they be "like you".Maori are Indigenous because they were here when the Brits arrived.Its just a word (like Jitter)used in this context by the Brits to describe those they found.Where Maori came from,how they got here,and what racial mix they are, is irrelevent.They are Maori,get over it.Robin Bell.

Maori have knowledge, history and a unique cultural perspective?

Posted on 06-03-2014 17:38 | By YOGI BEAR

Yeah right, Tui ad. We all know about Maori culture pre-1840 or so. What has not been explained is that means a cash cow syndrome runs amuck in Auckland and the ratepayers there are going to pay dearly every step of the way.

What Maori ?

Posted on 06-03-2014 14:47 | By Jitter

There are no true Maori left in NZ. The majority of those who call themselves Maori have less than 50% of Maori blood. Certainly the Maori agitators, separatists, racists and politicians are in that group. Peter Sharples has stated publicly that he has only 40% Maori blood. Therefore like the rest of us they should be called NZers. Why are these people not proud of their, in most cases, majority blood ancestry. A friend and neighbour in Wellington was part Maori, part Danish and part French. He was proud of all his forbears. He also predicted that once the Waitangi settlements started they would never end and would cause terrible racial conflict in NZ. Where is the concrete evidence that "Maori" are the true indigenous people of NZ. There is more and more evidence to indicate that they are not.

Ask

Posted on 06-03-2014 13:03 | By Mary Faith

The new Maori philosophy - ’Ask and it shall be given unto thee’. Well it is working for them isn’t it!! If anyone other than a person with a thimble full of Maori blood asked for the same ridiculous requests then they would be laughed at! So who do we blame here - those for asking .. or the fools who are acceding to their every whim. Time to look at those in our Government and local authorities to bring things back to an even playing field. This PC crap has got to stop!!!

Dogs wagging tails,

Posted on 06-03-2014 12:18 | By robin bell

New Zealand introduced M.M.P. after long discussion and a hard fought referendum.The far right (crazy and freinds)lost the fight.Is it perfect?No.Is first past the post,perfect?No.Is any system perfect?No.PALMER,absolutely did not "pull the principles of the T.O.W.out of thin air".The Teaty was a broad brush compact,in which various priciples or understandings were implied.The character assassination of those involved in the interpretation and implementation of those principles is a disgrace,but typical of "bad losers"Robin Bell.

2 FACED JOHNY

Posted on 06-03-2014 11:15 | By crazyhorse

Under the Local Government (Auckland Council) Act 2009, the amalgamated city of Auckland wound up with a tripartite local authority structure comprised of an overarching elected governing council, 21 underlying local boards elected by their communities, and the racial gerrymander of the appointed Independent Maori Statutory Board. This Board owes its existence to an expedient deal between prime minister John Key and former Maori Party co-leader Pita Sharples when it became obvious separate Maori seats on the restructured Auckland Council were a non-starter,that’s why the National Gov’t are standing loof in iwi consent dispute, National "have got" what they and the maori party worked together to achieve, "APARTHEID AUCKLAND" and that’s just the start!

THE PLOT THICKENS!!

Posted on 06-03-2014 08:31 | By crazyhorse

Council has rolled over to heavy-handed iwi who were about to grasp ultimate power over the property rights of Aucklanders. Council documents show the new rule was passed on the final day of five days of wrapping up the planning rulebook for public notification six months ago. The rule was briefly mentioned in the committee agenda at the time. Committee members, including Maori Statutory Board members David Taipari and Glen Tupuhi, were asked to endorse the interim directions they were given at {confidential!!!! workshops}???? in June, July and August. Until recently, applicants have had to consult iwi for carrying out work on a small number of 61 sites of significance to mana whenua, but in the last day of confidential talks"iwi" slipped in another 3000 halaluya, anyone catching on yet???.

TAIL WAGGING THE DOG BRENDA

Posted on 05-03-2014 20:17 | By crazyhorse

After world war 2 Germany changed their voting system to what we call MMP,mixed member proportional representation, this was to stop another nightmare as in Hitler and his small fascist group, it was soon copied by many other countries including NZ, the idea is for the votes to end up mirroring the make up of the general population,the reason for the change to MMP in NZ was to stop any one small group of people or individuals going against the wishes of the majority as in {THE UNITARY AUCKLAND PLAN} who asked for it, THE MAORI PARTY DID,behind closed doors with Key,the maori party only got 31,000 votes, Tariana Turia got only 3,221 "MMP, NOT FOR ME".

Sorry,Brenda but,

Posted on 05-03-2014 17:32 | By robin bell

I do get it.These columns have been the feeding ground,for the extreme right,ACT and 1law4all.parties for years.Peter Dey and myself being the only ones to oppose.Peter in particular,completely destroyed the non-factual, misinformation these parties rely on.You will see from crazy’s latest rant,how frustrating Peter and my "lone voice" have been.Will anything come of it all?I doubt it,but someone should always oppose extremism.Misinformation for political reasons is my enemy, Brenda.Human rights for minorities is my passion.The abuse of the above,is not only an insult to Maori,It is an insult to the integrity of the majority.That includes you and I,Brenda.Robin Bell.

Over reaction, Robin?

Posted on 05-03-2014 11:34 | By Brenda

Please take the time to read everyone else’s comments here. You are a lone voice. There is a reason for that. I’m afraid it is you who just don’t get it. Everyone else clearly does. "There are none so blind as he who will not see."

Stability and protection Bell??

Posted on 05-03-2014 10:05 | By crazyhorse

Bell say’s {It has everything to do with the Treaty and past ignorance of it. Its certainly what happens when extreme political entities use such prejudice to generate unrest.}, ahh! Geoffery Palmer pulls "his"principles of the TOW out of thin air and here we are, and as far as extreme political entities causing general unrest, slithering politicians or councilors pushing unwarranted seats with "unelected who ever sitting on them,and, we are just supposed to sit back clap and be thankful, what a sad joke. Tariana Turia the Sioux indian leading the maori party even thanks the Auckland council for their {COWARDICE!!and lies to the people of Auckland in taking this step on behalf of the nation, and "who’s nation" are they talking about,the "Johny and Finlaysons National nation", "pathetic!!!.

It's time all right...

Posted on 04-03-2014 14:27 | By morepork

"For too long local Councils have denied, avoided and side stepped their obligations under Te Tiriti o Waitangi. Well it is time to step up. It’s time to challenge the status quo and make it more inclusive of tangata whenua and our rights as indigenous people of Aotearoa..." No, Ms Turia, it’s time you got your snouts out of the trough and started behaving like New Zealanders.No non-racist Kiwi would deny the importance and value of Maoritanga in our culture, but this Treaty thing is getting very old. (174 years, actually) Our nation simply can’t afford the reparations being demanded and a line has to be drawn. We need to move forward as a group of ethnicities (each important to our overall "culture") but with a level playing field, equality under the Law (for ALL) and no privileged unelected elite (whether Maori or anyone else). It’s time to STOP!

Overit

Posted on 04-03-2014 13:37 | By overit

And I think that Maori are the rascists. Its a money and power grab, no more, no less.

Stability and protection,

Posted on 04-03-2014 11:36 | By robin bell

Brenda,Your passionate over-reaction to my stance,is understandable,but flawed.It has everything to do with the Treaty and past ignorance of it.Your assesment of Maori,is also flawed and highly emotive.Your faith in the R.M.A.too is flawed.The ACT party announced on the weekend,that top of their agenda is the repeal of the R.M.A.or severely restrict it (simplify it)I’m not a gambling man,but I’d put my last dollar on the T.O.W.being the first casualty.It is possible that some Maori are going too far.Its what happens when minorities and founding partners,are ignored for generations,and treated like "expendable barriers"to other peoples ambitions.Its what happens when their dignity as a seperate race is abused.Its certainly what happens when extreme political entities use such prejudice to generate unrest.One thing I do know Brenda,these methods never work for long.Reasonable people don’t like it,on both sides.Robin Bell.

TREATY OF WAITANGI

Posted on 04-03-2014 10:35 | By crazyhorse

Equality, more than anything else, has always been our country’s ruling principle. But there was no more to the Treaty than that. No equality of Maori and the Crown in governing our country was envisaged. Partnership is an obvious absurdity. The Queen’s subjects cannot be her partners. If Maori had equality and co-governance with the Crown, then all non-Maori, having no ‘Treaty relationship’ with the Crown, would be second-class citizens in their own country. Some Maori radicals clearly desire such an arrangement. But that is nasty racial politics, not the Treaty. The Auckland Unitary Plan is a perfect example of how NZ is heading to "apartheid" under a so called National / maori party led Gov’t, the smiling assassin Johny Key and out the back unelected ngai tahu negotiator chris finlayson giving NEW ZEALAND and all NEW ZEALANDER’S "right’s away for ever", ELECTION YEAR, DON’T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE.

what the heck?

Posted on 03-03-2014 23:23 | By Brenda

Robin are you blind? The things we are talking about here have nothing to do with redress for alleged past wrongs. They also have nothing to do with the ToW. They are purely grabs for wealth and power by a greedy minority of Maori who think they should have the power to lord it over everyone else. It has to stop!

Wake up NZ

Posted on 03-03-2014 13:28 | By Rayna Stephens

Maori Advisory Boards attached to Councils is another takeover bid to control local government in addition to its government gifting of final say to Resource Management Act applications and potentially every other statute in NZ. The Treaty did not allocate Maori dominion over NZ . In fact it purported to make all NZers equal, a concept that appears to have escaped Maori in its claims for dominion over water, forests, flora, seashore, seabeds and now existing bores. This is just a start. The Local Government Commission must stop taking orders from iwi in all ins aspects

WHAT TO LOOK FORWARD TO!

Posted on 03-03-2014 08:48 | By crazyhorse

Maori veto on water, Users of 10-year-old bore supply told to seek approval from 14 Maori groups. Brent and Jennifer Tassell will need approval to renew resource consent on a bore hole that has been operating for 10 years, supplying water to eight Puhoi homes. The bore draws water from 305m underground and is the only source of water for the properties in Slowater Lane, on the northern outskirts of greater Auckland. "It’s a hole in the ground that’s been there for 10 years," said Jennifer. "It’s completely over the top for our situation." Under the draft Auckland Unitary Plan, all applicants for resource consent for new or existing developments must apply to iwi for them to assess whether it would have an adverse effect on mana whenua. Taking or using groundwater is on the list of activities that could have a cultural impact, who pays for all this??????????

Fonzie and carcass,

Posted on 03-03-2014 08:19 | By robin bell

Your renewed energy is impressive.Ask any farmer if he feels an attachment to his land.The difference is most see it as an investment,thats fine.Maori on the other hand see the land (not whats on it)as part of themselves.I don’t expect you to understand that fact.There are no "handouts" only compensation for stolen land and past injustice,but you don’t get that either,do you.As for you Carc ass,In 55yrs living with Maori,I have never thats never experienced the racism you exhibit.Robin Bell.

More Rubbish

Posted on 02-03-2014 22:31 | By Brenda

@ robin bell - we already have stability and protection. It’s called the RMA. We don’t need more layers adding to costs and time delays. But hey, I hear the Bay of Plenty is next on the list for this system to be established in. I’ll be interested in how you feel when it’s your own private property they have control over. You have no idea what you are talking about Robin. Go and find out the facts before you comment!

Carcass

Posted on 02-03-2014 13:27 | By Carcass

Flavel and Turia are going to make sure the cash flow never stops even if it means putting companies or people out of business.There is know to ways about it they are both racist

Shocked and disappointed

Posted on 02-03-2014 13:17 | By Fonzie

says Te Ururoa Flavell Why is that ? Maori are fast eroding the general populations goodwill. They strut about calling themselves "People of the land"inferring noone else is and only fit for handouts on their behalf They talk about Maori sovereignty as though it was a reality when it never was. Maori accepted British sovereignty gladly to save themselves from self destruction Part of that is equality for all citizens

You just don't get it,

Posted on 02-03-2014 09:48 | By robin bell

Brenda,Mimi and verandric,Maori have the right to fight to protect thier interests.The "value" mana whenua bring to the table cannot be evaluated in monetary terms.They are Stability and Protection.Mauo is the best local example.Can’t be touched by rapacious developers,a good thing I’m sure you all agree.If it is unfettered developement you desire,go visit some other countries and witness such things as fences running from the backs of hotels to the water and beyond.Maori are just one safety valve,and absolutely no threat to anyone.Mimi,what does(unsubstantiated) mean?If you have proof of "self-appointed"Iwi Authorities" you should perhaps report it to the Police.You need to get your facts correct and verifiable.Robin Bell.

What rubbish!

Posted on 01-03-2014 18:30 | By Brenda

"Add value to our resource management decisions" How exactly? “To assume that there is no value in what mana whenua have to offer, or to instantly dismiss issues of cultural significance and the role that plays in resource management are clear examples of racism. Institutional racism,” says Mr Flavell. - what exactly are mana whenua offering? apart from putting their hands out and offering to take people money. And as for it being a treaty issue - that is total rubbish. I know the Treaty of Waitangi inside out and back to front and there is NO reference anywhere that gives Maori any rights over or above what every other ordinary citizen of New Zealand has. To try and make out that Maori are able to be better decision makers on resource consent issues than anyone else is ridiculous. Go ask the Moa and Huia what they think!

So who,s a racist then?

Posted on 01-03-2014 18:10 | By verandric

Of course Flavell and Turia don’t want to focus and race, because it racist and contrary the Treaty of Waitangi. Article 3 provides for equality, one standard of citizenship, not racial preference. As for cost of they would rather not talk about this, $500.00 a pop for a cultural impact assessment will bring in $millions. A great little earner. I agree that Maori should not be treated as 2nd class citizens, they should have the same opportunities for imput as everyone else and have have their imput considered the same as everyone else, not treated as special citizen with greater rights than everyone else. Culture is not something exclusive to Maori and as for natural resources, being natural they are owned by all, certainly not exclusive to Maori.

Turia Glosses Over Fact

Posted on 01-03-2014 17:31 | By Mimi

3,600 purple dots each covering many well-established residential properties in Auckland are now deemed "of value" to iwi. With no substantiation or reason given! And iwi have only assessed 35% of Auckland so there’s more to come. People are having to apply for Iwi Approvals to put up a garden shed or cut a tree and negotiate with 6 or 8 self-appointed (unsubstantiated) Iwi Authorities and pay whatever they ask for - $thousands each with no limits. And Turia thinks this is OK? The mafia would be proud of her!

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