History versus farce

Well Alys Wicksteed, the local apostle for Maori MP's Sharples and Tiria, have I got some bad news for you – Yes Maori were mostly not literate but Henry Williams was an expert in the Maori language certainly having the best interests of Maori at heart.
You seem to have conveniently overlooked the Littlewood draft treaty document that being Hobson's final draft of the Treaty when translated into Maori and then if you correctly translate it back to English, it equates almost word for word with the Littlewood draft. Viola! They are in fact the same.
There is only one legitimate Treaty, the Maori version. Not some fanciful, subsequently ‘created', after the event flowery Freeman interpretation that inexplicably found its way into the 1975 Waitangi Act and subsequent statutes
Perhaps you should ponder this – Governor Hobson read out his final draft in English (Littewood), to the assembled chiefs followed by Henry Williams who read out the Maori translation version to them.
After considerable debate in which Williams assisted Maori the chiefs accepted the treaty terms and, the Maori version was signed at Waitangi. The Maori chiefs knew exactly what they were signing. All the postulation since otherwise has no merit at all.

J Dyer, Tauranga.

12 comments

Truth

Posted on 19-04-2013 14:23 | By TERMITE

Now that does put it straight!


state secret

Posted on 20-04-2013 08:51 | By The Big Tomatosaurus

Hey, that's a state secret!! You are not allowed to tell the truth if it goes against the griever maori lying version. There will be a knock at the door for you soon!


your'e right

Posted on 20-04-2013 13:56 | By [email protected]

Good on you J Dyer you certainly got it right. How about that you MP's how about telling the truth to the people. Ian Brougham Wanganui


Correction for J.Dyer

Posted on 20-04-2013 22:02 | By Peter Dey

Correction for J.Dyer. Governor Hobson did not read out the final draft (Littlewood) version at Waitangi. He read out the Waitangi Tribunal English version. Governor Hobson always used the Waitangi Tribunal English version, and he used it on many occasions. After the signing at Waitangi, the final draft (Littlewood) version was nowhere to be found. It would not have got lost if Hobson had read it out.


@ ParoaPete

Posted on 21-04-2013 17:30 | By Major Think

So what proof do you have on that? I just wonder why would Hobson read out a draft that was different to the maori version? How do you know how the Littlewood version was lost? Please enlighten us. The Littlewood version is a real inconvenience to the griever maori....so much so they just carry on and ignore it.


@ ParoaPete

Posted on 21-04-2013 22:51 | By Captain Sensible

All this he said, she said. It gets us nowhere. tell me Pete, do you think it is right that maori have all these numerous race based privileges, rights, handouts, favours etc just because they have some maori blood. Now, I know you will deny these privileges exist, as you usually do. But for the purposes of my question, just for today, assume the privileges etc do not exist but the govt is thinking of introducing them. So would you agree to them or prefer everyone, regardless of blood/skin colour be treated equally?


who cares

Posted on 22-04-2013 05:47 | By Bevin

this whole treaty issue is bull s--t It is 2013 and heaps of water has flowed under the bridge What we need now is for everyone to wake up.That we need to work together to make this country the best place to live. I know lots have happen in the past and no one can prove what happen with the treaty so lets move on and not *** up this new consitution and put more rights to one sector of our community. Something that can not be agreed on should not be used in this. we should focus on things that are about to happen


Major Think

Posted on 22-04-2013 11:13 | By Peter Dey

Hobson only ever used one English version of the Treaty of Waitangi, the Waitangi Tribunal version, which he sent to Sydney as a record of the signing. There is no record of Hobson ever using any other version than the Waitangi Tribunal version. How the Littlewood draft was lost is all supposition. There is no record of its history. The Littlewood draft is no problem. It seems to have been the final draft for the Maori Treaty version. The historical fact is that Hobson did not send the Littlewood draft to anybody or give it any official status, and J.Dyer has no evidence that he read it out.


Correction of Paroa Pete

Posted on 22-04-2013 12:19 | By YOGI

No mate, You have said that the Freeman one was sent to NSW on the 5/2/1840 so how can it have been read out by Hobson on 6/2/1840? your arguments are in conflict when compared a bit like your whole run of stories here since day dot.


Correction for YOGI

Posted on 22-04-2013 18:37 | By Peter Dey

What was sent to Sydney was a copy of Hobson's English version. He did not send the document that he read out. He sent a copy of it.


Sent to NSW

Posted on 23-04-2013 13:28 | By YOGI

So then that means the Freeman treaty has at least 2 (but there are actually 6) versions of it. You also have "confessed" at last that the Littlewood treaty is the "Final draft that was translated to the maori version" so dose that not mean that the Maori verion of the treaty has been transpated from the Littlewood (english) version? The Maori version can not be then translated ex the Freeman version also as they are "SOOOO" different, right Pete.


There are only two versions of the Waitangi Treaty

Posted on 23-04-2013 17:50 | By Peter Dey

YOGI writes about a Freeman treaty but he has been brainwashed because there is no such thing as a Freeman Treaty. There are only two versions of the Treaty of Waitangi, one in English and one in Maori. The English version was written first. The two versions are close but not exact translations of each other. They were chosen by Governor Hobson at Waitangi. He was in charge of proceedings and he decided to have these two treaties which are now in the National Archives and used by the Waitangi Tribunal. Neither YOGI nor anybody else can now change what Governor Hobson decided. The Littlewood draft does nothing to change that fact.


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