Patricia Brooks, Pyes Pa is correct on one count, if every New Zealander read and understood our History we could all move forward in peaceful prosperity. Unfortunately though, we have long been indoctrinated and brainwashed with grossly inaccurate accounts of exactly what happened a couple of hundred yrs ago.
The stuff I was taught at school during the 50's and 60's was, to a large extent, inaccurate, and glossed over the hard facts. I guess it was Political Correctness in it's infancy? What we were taught in Social Studies and History classes sat comfortably with us and no boats were rocked. Over the years though, I have read accurate and factual accounts, written and told by both Maori and Pakeha alike. There are plenty of good books and documents that lay out the truth, for all to see. I'd like to know where Patricia Brooks gets her information from, it's certainly not from the original Treaty signed in 1840 and ratified in 1860.
Maori were, in the main, NOT mistreated by European Settlers. Sure, there were isolated cultural misunderstandings that sometimes lead to bloodshed, instigated by both people, but in the main the missionaries, politicians and others bent over backwards with good intent. Don't forget, Maori also had colonised NZ only a few hundred years earlier. And, the only Treaty they had with whoever was here before them was ‘winner takes all'!!, or rather ‘winner eats all'!! Maori were a stoneage race with no written language and their history was handed down by word of mouth from generation to generation.
Britain had long since learned from the sometimes ‘bungled' Colonisation of other countries. The majority of Maori were only too happy to ‘take onboard and embrace' new customs and a better way of living.They quickly made use of new technology, sometimes good but sometimes bad. The Maori chiefs almost begged the Pakeha Governors' of the day to give them protection under the British system.Many of them were tired of the constant tribal warring, killing, cannabilism that was their culture.
Maori were in fact, in the process of self destruction. Without going into factual and recorded detail, which is substantiated, Maori would most likely have continued to have lead a life of constant war among themselves, slavery ,cruelty ,cannibalism and, in the end probable starvation.
One thing's for certain, the Maori people have lots to thank their European discoverers for, and the wise ones know it.
The Treaty of Waitangi has almost been rewritten since the 70's, has been massaged and misconstrued, by both Pakeha and Maori alike. There are many and complex reasons for this but basically it's all about votes(power) and $$$'s, nothing else. It's certainly not for the long term good and advancement of this Country.
Look at all the Billions of dollars that have been paid out over the past 30 odd yrs, where has it all gone? Maori are still well represented in our Justice system, in our Health statistics, and Educational statistics, for all the wrong reasons.
The Fat-Cat Maori in control of all the $$$$'s and who strut through the Halls of Power are no doubt doing very well, but all these settlements seem to have had no effective impact on the many so-called ‘poor people'. And yet these modern day Maori Chiefs are still demanding more. New Zealand is being held to ransom and these radical Maori are past masters at making us all feel guilty.
Enough is enough and we need a Government that has the Guts to put a stop to it, once and for all.
I believe we are all New Zealanders, should all live as one people, and there be no discounts for being brown or any other colour. We're all in the same boat (waka) so let's get on with it on an equal footing and stop dredging up the past.
The Treaty and all of the Grievance and Apology nonsense needs to be ‘kicked into touch' otherwise this country will continue to racially fester.
Yes my neck is sunburnt Patricia so I guess you could call me a Redneck. But my neck's no redder than thousands of other New Zealanders, including many Maori, who've all had a gutsful.)
Pete Kelly, Te Puna.
29 comments
Posted on 07-11-2012 19:43 | By The author of this comment has been removed.
Good on you Pete I couldn't have said it better myself, you are very fortunate to have a paper like the sunlive that will allow people to express their options freely not like the Wanganui paper they are pro Maori and most of the time won't print anything that goes against Maori propaganda. Ian Brougham
NOT BAD ACCOUNT PETE
Posted on 08-11-2012 15:53 | By YOGI
Only thing I would correct of what you have said is where you say "paid out over the past 30 odd yrs" in fact that is more like the last 80+ years, that relates to in some cases where tribes have been paid out four times.
RORTEOUS END GAME
Posted on 09-11-2012 13:50 | By Schroden-Fraude Bob
I with pleasure look forward to a open debate of the facts on these subjects so as the public of NZ can hear and learn of the fraud that has been perpetuated to date.
Mimi Pohara
Posted on 09-11-2012 15:33 | By Mimi Pohara
Kia ora Peter Kelly I too live out here in Te Puna so I guess I am one of the 'fat cats' you are talking about who have their snout in the treaty trough. The only thing is we who worked on our treaty settlement were not paid and for 3 years we worked for the benefit of the next generations and to also put the wrongs of the past right. For the record thus far the treaty settlemnt process has only just reached a billion dollars or to put it another way about the same as what the government bailed out South Canterbury Finance with. yes we Maori have lots to thank our European settlers for but taking our land by bayonet and musket is not one of them. Te Puna is a great snapshot of where we as a country can get to by listening and learning to and from each other. I look forward to doing that with you one day soon.
CLASSICAL PUT DOWN.
Posted on 09-11-2012 16:35 | By Bell.J
Classical put down of the opposition by yet another misinformed extremist. New Zealanders can never live as one people because we are not, as long as your attitude prevails. Robin Bell
You nailed it Pete
Posted on 10-11-2012 14:58 | By Fonzie
There has been mistakes made but putting the country on the road to seperatism is the biggest in my view
I am racially discriminated against daily
Posted on 10-11-2012 16:53 | By Major Think
I and my family are non-maoris and we are racially discriminated against every day by NZ laws, fishing allowances and sizes, scholarships, government grants, healthcare, sports, workplace, and the list goes on.
I'm not sure ...
Posted on 11-11-2012 00:41 | By Murray.Guy
I'm not sure ... of the actual facts versus the myths and Chinese whispers relating to early NZ history, and frankly, it is not the critical element in my hope to encourage a 'one nation philosophy'. It intrigues me that I've yet to read any account of events 'post European' that had Maori breaching 'The Treaty'. What I am 100% sure of, is my belief that future relationships WILL NOT be in any way meaningfully enhanced by the present 'past focused mindsets and processes'. Furthermore, I do not belief it is the 'heartfelt hope' of those so passionately supporting the present processes that the great divide be bridged. There are too many egos involved, too many consultants and lawyers being paid too much money - they have no incentive at all to achieve a positive, sustainable and timely outcome. Not hard to understand the rational for the constant rewrites, the goal posts shifting.
SHIFTING SANDS
Posted on 11-11-2012 13:01 | By PLONKER
Murray it is easy, the game keeps changing because it suits those who are playing. As is often said, never get a lawyer to solve a scrap ... because solving the scrpa means no more fees!
Partly right Pete
Posted on 11-11-2012 18:47 | By Mike Kuipers von Lande
Over the last 40 years the fraud engineered by Maori tribes has grown exponentially. While most with Maori ethnicity have moved ahead on onwards, a small but sour group has conspired to rewrite their history to suggest they were oppressed. The fairytales thus created have been given to a racist tribunal set up specifically to find all such testimony deserving of merit no matter what the truth is with $billions thus stripped from the national treasury where it benefited all and given to the perpetrators of this fraud. There can be no peace and justice until all these stolen resources are returned to universal ownership and compensation paid by the fraudsters for the theft.
Mimi Pohara
Posted on 11-11-2012 21:16 | By Major Think
@ Mimi Pohara, just remind us how maori came to get the land you speak of, from the previous owners. And then, while you're at it, what happened to that race?
MIKE KVL
Posted on 11-11-2012 21:38 | By PLONKER
Yes that sounds about it, the English actually went to huge lenghts to try and make sure that the colony was setup and run a lot differently to any otehr before. yet as you note history is in teh process of being changed, on one part significiant parts are being placed out of sight and other parts are being assembled differently to portray the desired view required. many an aspect appear to be self serving to a greater cause and motivation beyond what the general public are aware of for now. It is indeed an evolving thing.
Mimi Pohara
Posted on 11-11-2012 22:27 | By Mimi Pohara
Major Think The land I am talking about in Te Puna was taken by the crown and given to the soldiers who carried out the orders of General Cameron. One of those loyal soldiers was Clarke and now we can drive down Clarke Road and see for ourselves the fairness of a system suited to the very people you expect us to welcome with a one ness. If anyone believes Maori are going to morf into a one ness then they have totally not heard the voice of the recent settlement here in Tauranga Moana. When Ngait Tahu settled in the 1990's they had one goal and that was to own once again the South Island in 100 years. Today they own 20%. Same goes for Te Puna when we settled. In 100 years we will own it once again.
MAJOR THINK
Posted on 12-11-2012 10:17 | By YOGI
Maori deny that there was anyone here before (wrong on multiple counts) and so then claim to be thet first here as a result of that. There are records of many other here well before the first record of Maori, not least of which is the Chinese naval ship that dropped them off in the first place (as per chainese historical records).
Pete KELLY
Posted on 13-11-2012 08:32 | By equal1
Mimi, before Europeans came to NZ Maori never 'owned' any land.The various tribes lived in different areas, the strongest tribes occupying,and fiercely guarding the best food sources.The weakest (smaller in number),tribes had the least food resources as they had been conquered and 'chased away' by the stronger tribes.It was a system of 'Tribal Dictatorship'.This is all documented by the Missionaries from the early 1800's.Once the Treaty was signed, and accepted by almost all Maori by 1860,different areas were recognised by the Crown as belonging to Tribes according to historical occupation.Maori came under English Law(and were more than happy to), and were given legal title.Some Maori sold their land, some did not, and some land was sold more than once.The problems arose when a Tribe who had long since been 'chased off' certain areas by stronger Maori tribes, decided they wanted a 'piece of the cake'under the new English Laws and came back to occupy previous held lands.This caused jealously and fighting amongst Maori and also between Maori and Pakeha, the Pakeha having legally bought land off current Maori occupiers.This was the start of the Maori Land Wars as commonly referred to. At the same time it was the start of the 'King' movement, where mainly the Waikato tribes decided they no longer wanted to be under the Queen of England and wanted their own monachy, this in effect was also a 'violation' of the Treaty.The majority of Maori didn't agree with the 'King' movement, they didn't wish to go back to old Maori ways of warring,canabilism,slavery etc.In effect therefore, terms of the Treaty were broken, firstly by Maori who now wanted a 'piece of the Cake' and then by Pakeha who were trying to defend land they'd bought from Maori who hadn't been the original occupiers. By this time of course the stronger Maori tribes (Te Rauparaha and Hongi Hika come to mind) were well versed in the use of muskets and bayonets, and made good use of them against other Maori.It all became a real can of worms and Pakeha (and Maori who had signed up), troops were sent to quell the fighting.In the end 'utu' was dished out by the Crown and in some areas (Taranaki) large tracts of land was confiscated.You could argue that this confiscation was quite OK as some Maori had violated the Treaty as signed. But all it's done is to fester past grievances by Maori. So, to this day, we have a 'can of worms',which has fast developed into a 'can of cash' and it will no doubt continue until we get a Government who has the 'Balls' to settle once and for all. As far as making the Treaty of Waitangi NZ's foundation document is concerned, I don't believe that should happen as there's no doubt that after the Treaty was signed, all peoples living in New Zealand (Aotearoa) came under one Flag and Monarch.As I've said previously, the Treaty has been totally misinterpreted over the yrs by both Pakeha and Maori, mainly for Political and Financial interests and to make the 'modern day fraudulent' Treaty part of our Constitution would be a huge Lie. We don't need division, there's no need for it, one flag, one people and all equal is the way to move forward as a strong and United Nation.
EQUAL1
Posted on 13-11-2012 16:56 | By YOGI
Yeah matee that sums it all up, add to that of course that according to Maori culture and tradition, that Maori never owned the land, no one did.
equal1
Posted on 14-11-2012 07:25 | By equal1
Mr. J. Bell, I'm neither an 'extremist' nor 'misinformed' as you accuse me.I'm not 'putting' anyone down as you also say.The facts are there for everyone to see.I have NOT, as you say 'misinterpreted them'.What I've said is all on written record. After my conversation on the telephone with you it's plain you have no factual knowledge of NZ History.
Peter Kelly
Posted on 15-11-2012 09:56 | By Mimi Pohara
Kia ora Pita for your korero however my reply to the statement you have made below is: Pakeha who were trying to defend land they'd bought from Maori who hadn't been the original occupiers The land that you live on as well as the Clarke's was never brought of local Maori who as whakapapa and history will show are the original inhabitants from as far back as records go. It was simply stolen and onsod or gifted to troops by Mclean. No it is not your fault nor is it anyone living today but to deny us recompense for this as you suggest is yet another act of dishonesty. Time to accept the truth and move forward eh Pita?
equal1
Posted on 15-11-2012 11:51 | By equal1
Murray GUY would have to be a Politician?What you've said is called 'sitting on the fence'.If you haven't, as you say 'read anything factual about Treaty breaches by Maori Post 1840' you need to join a Library mate, and take home some books from the 'non-fiction'section.I agree with you though, nothing will change unless the grievance industry is kicked into touch once and for all.Problem is, too many people, Pakeha and Maori alike, are driving it and becoming very wealthy. As they say 'money is the root of all evil'.
equal1
Posted on 16-11-2012 12:25 | By equal1
Hey Mimi, you say Mclean 'stole' land off Maori and gifted it to his troops. Can you then tell me why this happened? And also, what do you suggest be done about it now, as far as Local Maori are concerned?Is it land or money or opologies. If you got one or the other or all 3, what would you then do? You are welcome anytime to come and see what I'm doing to my plot of land out here,give us a ring if interested,5525266. Pete
Te Puna confiscation
Posted on 17-11-2012 00:27 | By Peter Dey
The Waitangi Tribunal report on the tauranga confiscations makes it clear that they were unjust. 20,000 ha of land was taken. Innocent people were evicted. The recent Treaty settlement is a lot more fair than any earlier settlement. Maori have received to date about $2 billion of settlements in total since 1975. This is the same total over 35 years that the Government is now giving in tax cuts to high income earners every year. That is no reason to kick settlements into touch. There were no previous owners of Maori land before Maori arrived. Modern scientific radiocarbon and DNA evidence shows that Maori were the first settlers in New Zealand.
@ PAROA PETE
Posted on 17-11-2012 21:43 | By PLONKER
Looks to me that there were plenty here before Maori, then of course none of Maori ever owned land anyway as that was their belief forever (well 200-250 years before cook arrived anyway)
equal1
Posted on 21-11-2012 07:18 | By equal1
Mimi, as far as I have researched,there was far more land 'Confiscated' than 20,000HA. More like 200,000HA. BUT, almost all of that land was gradually given back to Maori between 1865 - 1870. The majority of that land was then on-sold by Maori, mainly to settlers but also to the Crown.The reason it was confiscated in the 1st place was that quite a few Maori from the BOP were supplying the 'KING' movement in the Waikato with supplies and food for the fight to remain self governing, i.e. in violation of the Treaty of Waitangi.Some Maori had decided they didn't want to be under the Queen of England anymore.They were regarded as disloyal rebels. There's no doubt there were 'mirky' deals on land being done and some Maori didn't get a fair deal but over the past 150 yrs from what I read they've been addressed.It's time for us to all move on, we can't change the past. Can you imagine the massive development of the BOP being reversed? It just isn't ever going to happen. Have you ever thought about where we'd all be if the Germans or Japanese had taken us over 70 odd yrs back? We'd all be slaves or dead by now and there'd be no Treaties or settlements for anyone.I reckon as things have turned out we are one of the best countries in the world and we should all stop moaning about what happened decades ago. Cheers
Not that equal
Posted on 24-11-2012 14:34 | By Sagitarius22
The NZ Constitution Act of 1852 effectively cut any Maori voice in the so-called NZ self-government by restricting voting rights to Pakeha (in a round-about but way). What other avenue did Maori have?. It was logical then that if Pakeha have their own Government then under the Treaty Maori should be able to have their own also? There are far too many unsubstantiated assertions that leave out vital details in many arguments here.
@ SAGITARIOUS 22
Posted on 26-11-2012 17:23 | By YOGI
I agree that many details are missed out here, some have been made public at last but not enough for the truth to be seen clearly by all. As for a Maori separatist Government in NZ, that would nto be possible as Maori agreed to the Queens law. Regardless how can you have two governments? both passing laws what a circus that would indeed be, we would end up as a banana republic like the US and others.
Yogi
Posted on 27-11-2012 18:46 | By Sagitarius22
No a seperatist government is not what I would ever want either. The treaty was signed in good faith and this faith was taken advantage of for the benefit of one side. The good faith -from the majority of us - is upheld in my opinion and those who claim the tide is turning are still a minority.
A RETINK OF THE WHITANGI TRIBUNAL IS NEEDED!
Posted on 29-11-2012 11:47 | By YOGI
http://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.co.nz/2012/07/mike-butler-is-ngati-ranginui.html
No Gonads, More handouts
Posted on 01-12-2012 02:00 | By Mindrifter
Gee Pete, what a refresher to read that someone actually tells it like it is/was.It's evident that as long as we have excretia paddlers like Mimi& Co, NZ will remain a divided hunk of dirt!Unforunately it's no use now to try and change things, as the Govts or political parties of the day chase Maori votes, and at the same time chase people out of the country! I remember talking with a Maori guy in Perth some 25years ago. He was from a prominent rugby family in Northland, and on a xmas whanau visit back there. Instead of spending the proposed month there he (in his words) couldn't wait to get back home to Perth!! Why? Because as he put it, his young 14 year old nephew was on drugs, nieces were hapu at the same age. Some in jail etc etc. Funny isn't it, nothing has changed in that regard since then either. Well yes it has, there's more of his 'Bro's in the 'hoosegow' than ever before!! By the way what ever happened to the picturesque Raglan golf course that got "handed back"?? Or the multi millions that went to the Rotorus area tribes. Buying pubs, when they really couldn't organise a booze up in a brewery!! What or who finished up with all that dosh!!You will now have to excuse me whilst I tend to my Wahine who isn't well at this time!
Unequal Treatment
Posted on 04-12-2012 12:26 | By dclyle
I have long had a problem with publicised accusations that Maori were failed in the education system. I went through Primary School in mixed race classes and the the same in Secondary School. As we all shared the same teachers, health staff, dentists, sports etc and as some of us left school at 15 and some of us went on to university, there to gain a profession. I could name at least five Maori who became teachers, lawyers,a surgeon etc; and still I fail to see how Maori were treated disadvatagely. And why do us europeans keep getting accused of stopping the speaking of the Maori language when it was Maori leaders, Sir Apirana Ngata and Sir Peter Buck amongst others who caused it to be banned?
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