"Traditional" Maori navigation

Dear Sir,

Thank you all for the replies to my letter. Two recurring themes kept appearing; Micronesians and Polynesians are apparently now the same as Maoris (that goes against DNA findings!) as all of the stories refer to them, and secondly, a bit of huff and puff and anecdotes and even an attempted personal insult from Mr Butler, but no explanation of how this navigation works. I can not respond to every point made but will try to cover as much as possible. I do not doubt that both crews of the Waka Tapus have worked hard, but please do not insult the intelligence of the public by claiming they are replicating anything traditional. They have comfort, modern navigation equipment (allegedly not used), lighting, batteries, satellite communications, radio communication with the other boat, and even hot meals (traditional beef?) and it's extremely unlikely that if they don't make landfall when expected, and food supplies have ended, that the weakest paddler will be tomorrows meal. Apparently the two waka captains have been schooled by a Micronesian master, with the un-maori sounding name of Mau Pialug. Why were they not schooled by a Maori navigator as this is supposed to replicate traditional maori navigation, not micronesian/polynesian navigation?! One correspondent quoted me as using the term "stone age" in my letter but I did not, so why make that up? As expected, it seems I been labelled a racist because I am daring to doubt the authenticity of this voyage?

Pre European maori had no alphabet or written language, no way of measuring time, angles or distances and probably no numerical system. I doubt they understood the earth was not flat and many historians claim they found NZ by good luck, not good navigation. Maori now have all this but it has been copied from the Europeans - it is not traditional. By stumbling upon land after months at sea and not knowing the land was there in the first place, how can this be a great feat of navigation? I have no doubt anybody with a basic sense could find their way to the west coast of the Americas (it's a huge coastline between southern Chile and northern Alaska) but to find a small Island in a vast ocean requires precision in ones navigation. Never have I heard or seen anything that proves Maori had charts or knew anything about the earth. I wonder why these mighty Wakas never paddled a mere thousand miles to the west (against the prevailing conditions but certainly not impossible) and claimed Australia where meat and food, including another race, was there for the taking??

Having just had a glance at the 'Navigators Update' on their website I read "We'll definitely site land by morning...". This is not the kind of confidence I expect from someone using no instruments, no charts, no modern navigation systems, no compass, no log, no chronometer etc. And to the correspondent who claimed I should be aware of "Dead Reckoning", well, over many days using DR, one can be hundreds of miles out especially without use of the above mentioned.

I stand by 100% what I said before as I believe these two Wakas are cheating big time and really not achieving anything meaningful apart from giving the crew an adventure, and I am happy to agree to disagree with the differing views of my detractors.

D. Gordon
Mount Maunganui

14 comments

MR GORDON

Posted on 07-11-2012 10:18 | By PLONKER

The answers you provide are profound and questioning in a reasoned and logical manner, the responses however are far from realistic. Common Sense makes it clear that DR is no better than random guess work. The chance of making land fall to a place unknown of in a Waka of thousands of kilometers would be nothing less than a miracle. Allowing for water currents, wind, waves and storms the chnace of travel from the any of the islands above must be as close to zero as you can get.


good response

Posted on 07-11-2012 19:31 | By Captain Sensible

Great response Mr Gordon. You are right - all the talk is about Polynesian and Micronesian navigation... not Maori. Good point also about not finding Australia where there was no shortage of meat. Sadly, maori culture seems more of a make-it-up-as-you-go type of thing and they get away with it because our history is constantly being rewritten in a PC way by a bunch of so called "academics" whose main agenda is not historical accuracy but painting a favourable picture for the grievance industry. This so called Maori navigation is just another in a long line of 'stories' that if left unchallenged, would get bigger and better! I have read a bit of NZ history from old logs and journals from the early european arrivals and do not recall any mention of any special maori navigational techniques.


phoney

Posted on 10-11-2012 16:48 | By Major Think

I reckon all that Maori navigation stuff is as authentic as my $25 Rolex.


MAJOR THINK

Posted on 11-11-2012 18:05 | By PLONKER

I believe you have not got that right, a Rolex is worth less than $25, I believe the correct statement to make is "I reckon all that Maori navigation stuff is as authentic as my $25 fake Guccui!"


MORE PUT DOWN

Posted on 12-11-2012 10:07 | By Bell.J

.


MORE PUT DOWN

Posted on 12-11-2012 10:19 | By Bell.J

Yet another attempt to denegrate Maori achievement, dressed up as pseudo intelectual debate. Your letters are full of irony, not least of all the fact that european re-discoverers of N.Z could not have had the charts. you put so much faith in. Robin Bell


Not a put down, just a fact

Posted on 12-11-2012 13:32 | By Captain Sensible

@ Bell. J; The early Maori that found NZ, like the Europeans, stumbled on it by accident. How can you claim to have knowingly found something if you did not know it existed in the first place? The difference was that the Europeans noted down the lat and long but the Maori had no numbers, written word, alphabet, angles etc. With instruments such as a sextant a reliable clock and some pre calculated tables, it is relatively easy to find ones position when the sun/stars/planets/moon and the horizon are visible. Many ships were coming to NZ on a regular basis because the Europeans could navigate back here. Maori had no way of precise navigation. Just think about it and you will understand.


BELL JAY

Posted on 12-11-2012 14:58 | By YOGI

I would suggest that you look at the history of NZ in a wider context, if you only look at what a few academics have written in the last few years, perhaps 20 years or so then the view is far from realistic of what really happened. I suggest that a good starting point is where Maori were droped off in NZ by the Chinese (who did have a map) in the very late 1300's or early 1400's. In addition to that there were many different cultures here over time prior to that some as far back as 2000-2500 years or so. Holding on to a story of late in the face of overwhelming factual evidence throughout the ages is not helpful to anyone to get to the truth of it all.


Not a Fact Just a Put down

Posted on 13-11-2012 11:28 | By Bell.J

The early maori were polynesian. To my knowledge to have knowingly found N.Z or Hawaii or Easter Island. However, they did. All you need to do is give credit where it is due. Of course you cant as you are tod prejudiced. Robin Bell


Mr Bell

Posted on 14-11-2012 08:56 | By Captain Sensible

Have you heard of DNA Mr Bell? DNA suggests that Maori came from Taiwan, and NOT Polynesia/Micronesia. To suggest maori found NZ because they knew it was already there...well, how did they know it was there?? The problem is, Maori have gotten away with fobbing us off with nice tales and myths and we were all too afraid to question it. But not anymore. Early European arrivals, to my knowledge, never mentioned anything special about maori navigation. It's only now, in the "lets reinvent maori culture" era that these claims are appearing out of nowhere. It's the same with the word 'Aotearoa' and the Maori flag etc...the idea is to fool us into thinking they've been around for centuries...but that's not correct is it?!


BEEL J

Posted on 14-11-2012 14:26 | By PLONKER

Love to give credit to where due ... however the gap here is a little wide and "chance" random events are just that, I believe it maybe helpful to you to read a little further, there is factual reference on the internet and also here on Sunlive to a Chinese General dropping off early Maori in NZ, this would also be connfirmed by teh mixed bloodlines of Maori also. Perhaps the abaility of Maori to navigate was indeed no different than Columbus "discovering the Amercias" i.e. the Chinese had already provided them with the map of the world so he knew it was alraedy there before leaving.


to all the detractors

Posted on 15-11-2012 19:28 | By Bell.J

clearly the objective of you all is to discredit everything maori your insistance in using selective but suspect history is highly inacurate. maori are polynesian we all know abot DNA it puts polynesian people in thaiwan after being partly driven out by ethinic chinese. they moved down and on into the wider pacific. if you care to visit thaiwan today you can meet those long lost cousins in the out lying villages. they sailed on to populate many islands including hawaii and easter island they may even have reached south america. proven fact by both DNA and cultural and language similarities. if indeed they were dropped of by some chinese sea captain you would have to ask why slavery was a commercial transaction no profit there. sorry it just doesnt add up. when you rely on imaginary and or shonky history to back up your prejudice your on shaky ground indeed. Robin Bell


Robin Bell

Posted on 16-11-2012 12:52 | By The Big Tomatosaurus

Take off those rose coloured spectacles you always wear when referring to Maori history, and maybe, just maybe, the real truth will emerge. I have to agree with the others. I have studied maori history before the new "can-not-say-anything-bad-about-maori" era came into almost law, ( thus excluding a lot of truth) and there was nothing about Maori charts or special navigation techniques. Scientists did DNA samples of the Islanders and there was no match, so they kept working outward until they found a match in Taiwan. DNA says Maori came from Taiwan, but Maori say they came from Hawaiki which is yet to show up on any maps or charts or even satellite imagery!


BELL J BRO

Posted on 16-11-2012 13:55 | By YOGI

Discredit Maori, come on mate that is not what it is about at all, please read it all again, even I can pick up the ideas talked of here and elsewhere that almost all want "one people", the re-writing of history to stop i,e, get it back the the truth and as we all know throwing money at a problem does not fix it, all teh facts and data back up all of that. So really if you want to debate the facts and issues then come on back with something meaningful to the conflab here.


Leave a Comment


You must be logged in to make a comment.