Claims lack credibility

The claims by Ryan Wood (page 19, The Weekend Sun, May 11), that Maori wards have not increased Maori participation in democracy,  that there is no need for them, and that councillors already represent all voters, lack credibility. Council participation is measured by how many representatives there are at the council table, not how many people voted. On the Bay of Plenty Regional Council with Maori wards there are three Maori councillors. That is increased participation. On the Western Bay of Plenty Council without Maori wards there are no Maori representatives. That is non-participation. Ryan claims that Maori wards are not necessary for Maori to be elected, but nobody is claiming that, just that Maori wards are fairer. Ryan says that at present all councillors represent all their voters. However, the councillors objecting to Maori wards have not represented their Maori voters. Maori wards will eventually be supported because, like Ryan, nobody can produce any credible objection to them. 

P Dey, Welcome Bay.


46 Comments

Pete can't be, crazy.

Posted on 02-06-2018 14:59 | By R. Bell

You got to the bottom of the " barrel" years ago. There is no separatist system, when will you wake up to yourself delusion? Robin Bell.

PETE'S SCRAPING THE BOTTOM OF THE BARREL

Posted on 31-05-2018 17:43 | By crazyhorse

Pete is scraping the bottom of the barrel now campers saying maori are due, owed a separatist system, and wait for it campers it is only "their" fair share, fair share of what?, imagine the NZ economy with out the millions of dollars a year that is put into a separatist system for 5 to 6% of the population, oh yeah I know maori make up 14% but only a small percentage of them want this separatism this apartheid path,

Crazyhorse, payments for Maori health and education are not separatist

Posted on 31-05-2018 12:39 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, payments for Maori health and education would be the same regardless of what system was used. Channelling spending through Maori providers does not change the amount of spending at all.

Crazyhorse, parliament has approved Treaty settlements

Posted on 31-05-2018 12:36 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, parliament has approved all Treaty settlements, so claiming that you have proved that there have been no Treaty settlements is irrational nonsense.

Crazyhorse, wild claims without evidence, worthless

Posted on 31-05-2018 12:34 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, you produce no credible evidence to support your wild claims. You should be revising your beliefs. If you cannot justify your claims you should check your evidence. If you have no credible evidence you should stop making the claims. Spending on Maori activities is not extra spending it is just the fair share for Maori that they are entitled to anyway.

Crazyhorse, you are supporting Pakeha greed

Posted on 31-05-2018 12:28 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, you have lost the argument over Treaty troughing. You have not produced any evidence against the fact that Maori receive only 10% compensation for confiscated land. This loss to Maori far outweighs any of your claims over Treaty troughing. You should forget about claiming Treaty troughing. What you are doing is defending Pakeha greed.

Crazyhorse, denying facts again

Posted on 31-05-2018 09:14 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, parliament has passed about $2 billion of Treaty settlements into law. In Tauranga $50 million compensation was paid for $500 million of land that the government has apologised for wrongly confiscating. That is 10% compensation. The tribes who lost the land still exist. The compensation to them is still justified. The fact that it has taken over 100 years is our shame. Pakeha like you who know that more compensation is justified are Treaty troughers.

Underpaid Treaty settlements?, na just deposits!

Posted on 30-05-2018 19:29 | By crazyhorse

I don’t know what Pete’s "bleating" on about,we have proven there have been no "treaty settlements" only down payments, deposits, plenty more to come eh Pete?, it will never stop and Pete knows it. It’s 2018, "part" maori have had nothing taken from them and we have taken nothing from them, Pete continually talks of of 10% compensation being paid, but in reality not all maori land was stolen, I find all this greed at the expense of the NZ tax payer disgusting, it’s sick and wrong, every week another claim and it is actually speeding up, the claims are getting more aggressive more ridiculous,maori put their hand out yeah we’ll pay for separatist health, education and anything else, this has cost millions over the years doubles every year, then you have services like Westpac helicopter and other services saving people begging for funding.

Crazyhorse, arguing by denying facts is irrational

Posted on 30-05-2018 13:54 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, the amount of assets retained by the government from land stolen from Maori plus the loss of income to Maori for over 100 years of theft is huge. It is far greater than what you are complaining about. Health, welfare, and education payments to Maori are not extra payments. They are just what Maori would get if there were no separate systems. You are a Pakeha Treaty trougher because you are accepting the benefit of theft from Maori and want it to continue.

Crazyhorse, you have not denied underpaid Treaty settlements

Posted on 30-05-2018 09:33 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, underpaid Treaty settlements far outweigh any of the claims you make for hand-outs to Maori. Funding for Maori universities, schools, pre-schools, TV and radio are just a fair share of government spending. You cannot deny the size of underpaid settlements and also the benefit to you as a taxpayer of over 100 years of benefit to the government from land stolen from Maori. You are a Pakeha trougher if you want to call names.

According to Pete maori receive a

Posted on 29-05-2018 16:32 | By crazyhorse

Of social benefits. There is no rip-off, are not treaty settlements for the betterment of maori , Pete talks about only 10% compensation being paid but say’s nothing about the millions and millions of dollars "thrown" at maori only schools, kohanga, wananga, Tv, radio health system, perhaps Pete would like to fess up and tell us what how much of K1W1"s tax take do maori "consume" and I’m not talking about treaty settlements because we all know now there has not been any treaty "settlements just a " hors d’oeuvre" before the main feasting begins, ah you are a dag Pete!.

Crazyhorse, we all pay a share of benefits and receive a share

Posted on 29-05-2018 11:13 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, all taxpayers, Maori included pay for social benefits. Maori pay a small share of taxes and receive a small share of social benefits. There is no rip-off.

But who's paying for it Pete?

Posted on 26-05-2018 22:28 | By crazyhorse

Maori schools, kohanga, wananga, Tv, radio are all Maori showing resilience and moving forward, and that’s only a start the big ones are separatist education and health system but who pays for it, iwi with there tax payer "hand outs" or us, yes campers you quessed it, we pay for all this and we always will these snow flakes will go forward alright but they will never take any responsibility, and there "elite" will never pay for it, you will!.

Crazyhorse, Maori wards have increased Maori representation. You do not deny this

Posted on 26-05-2018 14:50 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, Maori wards in the Regional Council have given Maori increased participation. You do not deny this. Calling it untruth is irrational. The statement is true and you do not deny it. You just try and sidetrack the point.

We are making progress

Posted on 26-05-2018 12:34 | By crazyhorse

With the 5 referendums on Maori ward’s done and dusted we can go forward to next local body elections knowing the first question put to anyone running will be are you for kiwi or iwi instantly weeding out the separatists and if the government is stupid enough to take that democratic right away I finally think that will awaken the most lethargic kiwi.

More untruths

Posted on 26-05-2018 10:59 | By crazyhorse

Pete says I can’t deny his letter saying this gives Maori people a say in council, I do deny it! It gives iwi, or that tribes political or corporate arm a free ride into council local government is not another WINZ office or through to feed from they are there to collect carnage and look after infrastructure, really Pete do you think K1W1 are silly, nice try but.

Crazyhorse, compensation is just 1Law4All

Posted on 25-05-2018 11:42 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, you seem to regard compensation for Maori as Maori asking for a handout and not being selfreliant enough. Compensation is just a Pakeha legal process. There is no credible reason for Maori to get different compensation treatment than Pakeha. The present situation is not 1Law4All. You should be supporting 1Law4All compensation.

Crazyhorse, Maori are looking forward more than you are

Posted on 25-05-2018 10:41 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, the 20% of the NZ economy that Maori business now holds is Maori looking forward. You are the one looking back and accusing Maori of things that are only in your imagination, like Treaty troughing. 10% compensation for injustice fully admitted by the government is not Treaty troughing. Maori schools, kohanga, wananga, Tv, radio are all Maori showing resilience and moving forward.

Crazyhorse, I note that you do not deny the letter

Posted on 25-05-2018 10:20 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, you divert onto your favourite side issues. You do not deny the letter which points out that Maori wards have increased Maori participation in the Bay of Plenty Region, and that councillors did not fairly represent their Maori constituents which they ought to have done.

Crazyhorse, Maori businesses pay tax like everybody else

Posted on 25-05-2018 10:16 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, the only Maori groups who do not pay tax are approved as charities because they put their profits back into their community.

Crazyhorse, you are in denial

Posted on 25-05-2018 10:15 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, parliament has approved payment of over $2 billion in justified compensation for land that it admits was taken wrongfully from Maori. You know this. You are just playing a childish game here.

compensation for what?

Posted on 24-05-2018 17:04 | By crazyhorse

Wollowing in self-pity and seeking compensation for something that never happened to them, all the while looking backwards never forward, Pete talks about "treaty settlements, there’s never been a treaty settlement! just a down payment, a deposit on the next round of claims!.

Same equation used

Posted on 24-05-2018 11:02 | By crazyhorse

Iwi business pays little tax as does it pay little to its people, the ones that need it the ones they continually"use" to extract money from the NZ tax payer to start or prop up their already heavily subsidized life styles.

Crazyhorse, 10% compensation covers it

Posted on 24-05-2018 09:03 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, when you get the government to pay full compensation not 10% for Treaty settlements then you can fairly complain about tax. Until then you are making a fuss about nothing.

Pete says!

Posted on 23-05-2018 19:27 | By crazyhorse

Maori Business now 20% of the economy, perhaps Pete can fill us in on what tax take there is from "maori" business, oh that’s right paying no tax is written in the treaty as well, lol,, take truckloads out, put nothing in.

Kenworthlogger, we have made enormous progress as I wished

Posted on 23-05-2018 16:20 | By Peter Dey

Kenworthlogger, you seem to ignore the huge racial progress we have made: Maori kohanga, schools, wananga, TV, radio, the Treaty of Waitangi in law, the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, all through blah blah blah, so I am delighted. Maori Business now 20% of the economy. As you say voters do not need credible evidence to vote. They just leave problems for politicians to sort out. That is what has just happened with the vote on Maori wards unfair but in time it will be sorted out.

Peter

Posted on 23-05-2018 14:29 | By Kenworthlogger

Blah blah blah. Democratic voters do not need any credible evidence to vote how they choose. Dont you get it. Thats why your wishes will always be ignored. Get used to it and suck it up fella......

Peter

Posted on 23-05-2018 14:29 | By Kenworthlogger

Blah blah blah. Democratic voters do not need any credible evidence to vote how they choose. Dont you get it. Thats why your wishes will always be ignored. Get used to it and suck it up fella......

5. Districts vote for racism.

Posted on 23-05-2018 13:43 | By R. Bell

All of the percentages quoted by crazyhorse represent almost exactly the differential between the Maori and pakeha populations. That indicates people voted by race, not on whether or not Maori wards would be of benefit to society as a whole. We have had separate Maori wards for 150yrs in parliament. Question, Are they the next target for hobsons pledge and the sheep that follow them? Robin Bell.

Groutby, your comment is appreciated

Posted on 23-05-2018 09:42 | By Peter Dey

Groutby, the fact that many Maori have only a small percentage of Maori ancestry does not really matter because it is Maori iwi and communities that sustain Maori language and culture and get Treaty settlements or rights to natural resources. Maori who are involved in Maori communities choose to be involved. Their percentage of ancestry is irrelevant. They get no privileges as individuals.

FALL ON YOUR SWORDS

Posted on 23-05-2018 08:14 | By crazyhorse

LGNZ, councillors+ mayors who tried to push undemocratic separatist maori representation in local government must now resign, all polls taken show the great majority of people do not want maori wards, these minions were "voted" in by a majority and immediately turned on those people who voted them in and conspired against them, they came into local government under false pretences and must go, resign, there is no place for maori lapdogs in local or anyother form of government, if you do not support the majority that "gave you" the job you should not have run in the first place, if you don’t walk now you will be out on your racist back sides next election.

5 DISTRICTS VOTE AGAINST RACISM!

Posted on 23-05-2018 06:57 | By crazyhorse

Kaikoura voted 80.03% against;Western Bay of Plenty voted 78.2% against;Manawatu voted 77.04% against;Palmerston North voted 68.87% against;Whakatane voted 56.39% against.Voters in the five districts voted on whether or not to proceed with race-based part-Maori wards after affected residents collected sufficient signatures to oblige their councils to hold a poll. thanks to all who helped achieve this decisive-for-democracy result.

Peter, perhaps I owe you an apology..........

Posted on 22-05-2018 20:10 | By groutby

..........for not stating clearly my comments, or maybe the interpretation was astray..not sure, however, my "5 per cent" Maori was meant to mean exactly that. Being told that you are "Maori" at say,5%...and yet made up genetically of 95% "non" Maori, that surely must get many thinking of a different way forward surely..So, with a "genetic" make up of such quantity, it is totally understandable for many previously instructed to conform to Maoridom with such low level, may (or indeed may not) wish to seek another pathway in life...isn’t it?

Crazyhorse, comparing Maori in NZ to Hitler in Germany is fantasy

Posted on 22-05-2018 16:17 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, now that you are warning us to watch out because Maori are about to take over NZ like Hitler took over Germany, we know that you have lost the plot. The Maori community makes up 10 per cent of NZ. They control nothing.

JUST THE START.

Posted on 22-05-2018 15:38 | By crazyhorse

Water ’ownership", unelected maori on council , the entire coastline, it’s just the start campers!The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way, the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed. Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

Crazyhorse, a Maori seat on the council is not gimme gimme gimme

Posted on 22-05-2018 15:08 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, you are exaggerating the situation completely. At present the Maori community exists as a separate identity. Maori are not represented on the local council. They should be represented. There is no gimme gimme gimme involved at all.

Crazyhorse, when the system is biased people opt out

Posted on 22-05-2018 14:45 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, you are saying that Maori should take part in a system that you and they know is biased, and that they should just accept the biased result. That would be irrational. It is more rational to avoid the biased system when you know before you start that your chances of winning are small. People of ability put their energy into activities that they know stand a good chance of a good outcome.

EMBARRASSING TO THEMSELVES & NZ

Posted on 22-05-2018 13:35 | By crazyhorse

It’s not as though they’re even prepared, or "willing" to have a crack it, actually run, no, just gimme, gimme, gimme.

Groutby, 10 per cent of voters are on the Maori roll

Posted on 22-05-2018 10:31 | By Peter Dey

Groutby, 10 per cent of voters are on the Maori roll. They are fully involved in modern life in New Zealand. They just want to hold on to their language and culture and to see the Maori community represented in government. They are represented in parliament but not on local councils. It is obvious that the local government election system is biased against Maori, when only 5 per cent of councillors are Maori. The reason is clearly that Pakeha voters heavily outnumber Maori voters.

Mr Dey,

Posted on 21-05-2018 20:17 | By groutby

.....as stated: "Only 5 per cent of local councillors are Maori".... Mr Dey....may of those Maori are only 5 per cent Maori...maybe that is why they actually prefer being on a different role more suited to modern life, whereas a few hang on to the past...just in case someone comes back for them......

WHAT A COP OUT!

Posted on 21-05-2018 17:35 | By crazyhorse

Pete says, " The reason maori are not elected seems to be clear that the system is biased." lol what he’s saying it’s biased it’s not fair that maori actually have to run, campaign.There is a growing mindset amongst treaty troughers that they are entitled to just about anything they want, well they aren’t!.

Crazyhorse, Maori can get elected, but the system is still biased

Posted on 21-05-2018 11:23 | By Peter Dey

The fact that Maori can and do get elected to councils does not change the statistics. Only 5 per cent of local councillors are Maori. The reason seems to be clear that the system is biased. That some are elected does not prove otherwise.

TRY RUNNING FOR COUNCIL.

Posted on 21-05-2018 08:19 | By crazyhorse

I know it’s a crazy idea but, maori could actually compete, yes campaign go out there do the hard yards and get elected, when they do they are capable as anyone else of winning, happened in Carterton with Marks and Beyer and now campers, yes wait for it Porirua has just elected a maori mayor and "heaps" of Pacific Island councillors.Now how may you ask did this happen? they went out did the hard yards and got elected.Mike Tana came into the race in August as a first-time candidate and won and he has been actually travelling down from Rotorua regularly to do the job as mayor, the job he worked hard for and deserves. Go Mikey! but now we have to hear from Dey because Mike probably isn’t there to push maori only issues, maybe Mikey’s not maori enough for Pete? not racist enough!.

Captain Sensible, you do not make sense

Posted on 19-05-2018 09:45 | By Peter Dey

Captain Sensible, if the article has facts ignored and lies told then you should be able to reveal these to everybody. If you do not want to discuss the article then it seems that you actually do not have anything to back up your claims.

Captain Sensible, false accusation

Posted on 19-05-2018 09:30 | By Peter Dey

Captain Sensible, you have no credible reason to make an accusation of lying about this article. You should explain yourself.

to all readers

Posted on 18-05-2018 10:21 | By Captain Sensible

I urge anyone to not respond to this letter. Facts are ignored. Lies are told. Do not respond.

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