The debate on the future of the Mount hot pools is still bubbling with Tauranga accountant Ian Stevenson continuing to challenge Tauranga City Aquatics Limited.
Repair works are continuing at Mount Hot Pools.
Ian is continuing to criticise TCAL's handling of the hot pools issues saying its figures do not tally and statements made by TCAL CEO Tania Delahunty cannot be verified.
In a response to TCAL's chief executive officer Tania Delahunty's comments on August 9, Ian says her replies just lead to more questions and her claim that the $4.2million loss for the year is an accounting loss and is not relevant.
Ian says the one off adjustment reflects the loss of tax claims for depreciation that are no longer available in the future and regardless of the tax changes required by Government, sooner or later it adds to the losses reported and relate directly to TCAL attempting to run a commercial activity.
Tania says TCAL is paying rates and water charges, but in 2010's audited annual report Ian says it does not disclose or report payment to the Council for either rates or water.
'I am not privy to the 2011 Annual Report as yet, but I would be more than happy to review it publicly if it is made available now.”
In her reply on August 9, Tania says in the 2011 year end accounts TCAL has paid rates to Tauranga City Council of $13,334, excluding GST, and water rates of $111,601, excluding GST.
However, Ian says paying $13,334 GST in commercial rates for the whole TCAL network cannot be 'full rates” as would apply across all five pool sites.
'I request that the CEO table the rate demand (five sites) as paid so as it can be seen for what it is.”
Water Rates cannot be for salt water from the harbour, or hot water taken from the ground, it can only be for the use of water from the town supply.
Tania's claim TCAL pays Tauranga City Council $180,000 per annum for IT support and $10,000 in administration support per annum is also being questioned by Ian.
'What actually is TCAL getting for the $180,000 a year? All that is needed is a means to record accurately the takings,” says Ian.
'Tania makes reference to this only being paid to TCC in the current year ended 30 June, 2011 and that no additional 'rates money” was asked for by TCAL. This I believe is an admission that ratepayers are in this up to their eyeballs.”
Ian says this issue is not properly disclosed in the annual reports to June 30, 2010 or prior and the real issue is TCAL makes substantial losses regardless of the cost shuffling between TCAL and TCC annually.
Ian also says the admission that income from the Mount Hot Pools supports the other pools in the network, confirms that Baywave, Greerton, Otumoetai and Memorial Park all lose money every year.
'It is interesting to note that the two gym inclusive facilities at Baywave and Greerton do not make money, it is in fact more likely that they add to the losses based on the staff levels, remunerations paid, and membership rates collected.”
Ian is asking how this project can be self funding since TCAL have not provided any survey of the 'patrons”, for its proposed $10 million up-market wellness centre at the Mount Hot Pools, or a feasible peer reviewed business plan or budget.
'Tauranga City Councilors should include a binding resolution that the Council Controlled Organisations like TCAL must be open, transparent and accountable to ratepayers for the ratepayer provided funding that they spend.”
26 comments
There Must Be Away
Posted on 29-08-2011 15:53 | By tabatha
Ian good on you for the continued dig into this debacle because it is not going to go away until an official yeah or nay is put on it. However surely there must be away for you to get this information via official secrets act, ombudsman or such like and at no cost other than a stamp or time typing up the request. I would like to believe there are a lot of people in the TCC who support your actions and I hope those who read this site and agree with you show support on here as that will make elected ones and others realise people care. Thanks Ian.
POOL SUPPORT
Posted on 29-08-2011 18:00 | By STRAITAS
I'm one tabatha, I care, yes good on you Ian i think you are doing a excellent job and I do hope its not all in vain. Comm'n TAURANGA show some support
Get on with it
Posted on 29-08-2011 18:22 | By Glen Clova
Get on with the upgrade do your job and take no notice of the knockers.
Wasted Energy
Posted on 29-08-2011 18:36 | By JenniPea
Its a shame people with the obvious financial skills of Ian can't put them to a more positive use. Why can't we just get something positive and with tourism potential off the ground in this city? Where are the positive suggestions from all these naysayers. Good on ya TCAL and TCC - good luck with getting this one off the ground
why so many secrets with a ratepayer funded organisation?
Posted on 29-08-2011 20:11 | By wreck1080
Surely commercial sensitivity does not apply? Why don't they just open the books on this?
TCAL drones live of secrecy
Posted on 29-08-2011 22:35 | By SpeakUp
JenniPea and Kirrie, you are cute. So, we should all hold hands and sing Kumbaya while TCAL is ripping us off? Hiding their mismanagement and thievery? Are you part of that gang? Thank you, Ian, for publicizing the ongoing filth and pilfering of public funds that enriches 'administrators' but does nothing for the community. 'It is well enough that people of Tauranga do not understand TCAL and TCC system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” -Henry Ford (modified)-
Thank you Ian Stevenson
Posted on 29-08-2011 23:18 | By Openknee8ted
You deserve a community service award. Where is the Public Relations experts hired by TCAL? Looking forward to the 2011 Auditors report.
Time for Clarity
Posted on 30-08-2011 08:18 | By bigted
"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when it is our mission to deceive". Now is a great time for all parties involved to make public the 'losses', (particulary salaries) and move forward.
a joke
Posted on 30-08-2011 09:07 | By Capt_Kaveman
the hot pools is a council libility and should be run by council not some mates of a counciler/s, if council cant run it then bulldoze the lot
Support the Pool
Posted on 30-08-2011 15:42 | By Kaimai
Come on Ian - you should know Rates and Water rates are not disclosure items in financial statements, as are the myriad of other operational expenses. Your statements distract people away from the important issues like getting the pools open and running as soon as possible.
Sad !!!
Posted on 30-08-2011 15:53 | By DaKiwiBean
Why is it that the same "knockers' seem to spend all their time passing negitive comments with no positive imput. Come on 'Speak up, wreck1080, Capt_Kaveman and others add some positive spin. Or is it that you all have nothing better to do with your time. It's really starting to piss people off. But come on, we need the pools open....Better still, out yourself's.
Sad !!!
Posted on 30-08-2011 15:53 | By DaKiwiBean
Why is it that the same "knockers' seem to spend all their time passing negitive comments with no positive imput. Come on 'Speak up, wreck1080, Capt_Kaveman and others add some positive spin. Or is it that you all have nothing better to do with your time. It's really starting to piss people off. But come on, we need the pools open....Better still, out yourself's.
Support the Pools, yes indeed I do
Posted on 30-08-2011 19:37 | By Ian Stevenson
But we can do it better. KAIMAI, yes rates and water rates should be disclosed annually in the case of TCAL as they are related party transactions because TCC is the effective owner of TCAL. If rates are paid they should be disclosed, if they are not paid (free as to TCAL) then that benefit provided at no cost should also be disclosed under the "interests register".
DaKiwiBean
Posted on 30-08-2011 20:13 | By Capt_Kaveman
yeah i want the pools open at a resaonable entry fee since it went so high i have never been back and with this not being run by council id rather it flattened, neg comments im a full Mounty and never wanted to be part of Tga and so will always pick it apart and why not as i havent seen many good things this council has done just look at the poor traffic light system we have with no mantainace or checks on them, A green light at Cam/11th ave is been blown for over a month for starters, im also sick of invisable cars the lights change for,i want some services bk running by the council
Councillor whimps - are accomplice's to TCAL smoke & mirrors
Posted on 30-08-2011 22:53 | By Demandthetruth
It is truly amazing that Councillors including the new ones have become so whimpish. Catherine Stewart is the only one prepared to 'stand up”. Amendments to Local Govt Act require Councils to become open & transparent -where is it??. Councillors have the opportunity to stand up & say 'NO MORE SNOW JOBS!!”the silence deafening Make all the CCO's (TCAL, etc) accountable to the elected representatives of the ratepayers (joke) and have all of the correct & truthful information out on the table on a regular monthly or 1/4ly report. If the CCO Board were proper Directors of a "proper" company they would be facing the wrath of shareholders, SFO and Companies Office well before now. Pity there isn't a good retired Lawyer in town prepared to find some way of getting some of these people into Court & get some truthful answers. GET RID of them and the CEO!! Start afresh!! The job is NOT WORTH $170,000 per year to run a 5 pool facilities & apart from that the CEO has told serious porkies left right & centre with the intent of misleading and/or is at best lacking in integrity. Also why are they, TCAL, in the shop, café, gymnasium & massage business in competition with private unsubsidised businesses?? Has anybody seen a business plan from these TCAL clowns?-are they capable of making one? Most likely not even the elected clown whimps have seen one. GOOD WORK IAN!! - keep them on the ropes; demand the truth until we get it all A quote:-'…for (evil) dishonesty to triumph it only takes good men to do nothing”
THE FULL ARTICLE SHOULD READ AS: -
Posted on 31-08-2011 11:52 | By Ian Stevenson
The TCAL CEO Ms Tania Delahunty, (the CEO) has taken issue with my presentation to the TCC Projects & Monitouring Committee meeting on Monday 25 July 2011. Tania is trying to deal with TCAL financial matters to the exclusion of most other matters raised. Dealing in order with the financial matters raised by the CEO, I respond as follows: - (i) ANNUAL LOSS * Despite the CEO's assertions relating to the year ended 30 June 2010 TCAL reported in its audited Annual Report a loss for the year of $4.222 million, how that is arrived at is not relevant. What else does one need to know other than it is a 'loss”. * The CEO says it is an 'accounting loss as a result of tax changes”, however this is irrelevant because the adjustment would otherwise have been made anyway over time and into the future. Either way there is a loss reported, this is required to be done. The one off adjustment reflects the loss of tax claims for depreciation that are no longer available in the future. * The CEO claims that it is not an 'operational loss” but regardless of the tax changes required by Government sooner or later it adds to the losses reported and related directly to TCAL attempting to run a commercial activity. (ii) RATES AND WATER CHARGES * The 30 June 2010 Audited Annual Report of TCAL does not record or disclose any payment for either, as TCAL's 100% effective shareholder/owner TCC should have been noted in the past has either: - - Made a payment to a related party (TCC for rates etc), or - Made disclosure of 'free” services provided to it (TCAL) I am not privy to the 2011 Annual Report as yet, but I would be more than happy to review if publicly if it is made available now. * A commercial entity, pays 'commercial rates” which are usually higher than residential rates, there is only $13,334 GST exclusive paid for a year for the whole TCAL network, this can not be 'full rates” as would apply across all five pool sites. I request that the CEO table the rate demand (five sites) as paid so as it can be seen for what it is. · Water Rates, these can not be for salt water from the harbour or hot water taken from the ground it can only be for the use of water from the town water supply. Again the same issue arises here about these charges along thelines or the rates referred to above. (iii) COUNCIL SUPPORT COSTS (IT & ADVERTISING) * IT support, what actually is TCAL getting for the $180,000 a year? All that is needed is a means to record accurately the takings. Tania makes reference to this only being paid to TCC in the current year ended 30 June 2011 and that no additional 'rates money” was asked for by TCAL. This I believe is an admission that ratepayers are in this 'Up to their eyeballs!” * Admin support, of only $10,000 pa, clearly this is not enough and amounts to no more than 'pin money”. * Neither of the above two item are disclosed properly in the annual reports to 30 June 2010 or prior, the real issue is TCAL makes substantial losses regardless of the cost shuffling between TCAL and TCC annually. (iv) MEMBERSHIP PRICES - TCAL GYMS * TCC staff and related contractor staff regularly report that the Baywave facilities are available for a payment of $249pa from the member. * Corporate memberships, I would agree that a 10% discount or so as noted would be normal, however evidence has been provided previously that the official gym membership of $948 was being sold for $520 and unlimited pool access was also provided at no further cost (stated value of the pool only membership then was $723), that amounts to about 70% discount and was denied at the time, however the TCAL flyers told a different story. (v) MOUNT HOT POOLS CLOSURE, THE CEO SAYS: - * The CEO says an 'operating surplus” of $160,000 a month average, and * The CEO says that the Hot Pool is losing an average of $126,000 a month in revenue, and * The conclusion from this is that reported operating surplus is more than the revenue. The former is the revenue less the operating costs and so must be less than the latter. * The CEO states later that the network loses about $160,000 a month... * None of these figures add up at all nor make any sense. * The Mount Hot Pools monthly surplus (very dubious indeed) of $160,000 goes to 'shore-up” the losses of the other four facilities being: Memorial, Otumoetai, Greerton and Baywave Pools. (vi) STAFF * TCAL should be able to reduce its 150 staff in cases where restructure or closure has occurred, this is called 'redundancy”. There maybe some doubt about if this if it is self inflicted! (vii) TCAL'S NEW DEBT * The CEO says that surplus from the Mount Hot Pools and the income from the proposed Wellness Center addition is also going to pay off the debt to be raised for the proposed Wellness Center funding. (viii) MASSAGE ROOMS * My comment was that a full time massage person at the Hot Pools over a five year period had not had one Cruise Ship passenger booked in. * In addition the existing rooms are under utilized already as staff seek additional work outside the facility. * Further I commented that my understanding was that a survey of disembarking passengers found no interest in such a facility * This was confirmed by a subsequent speaker, Fred Greenville. * I made no reference to 'three existing massage rooms”. * TCAL have not provided: - any survey of the 'patrons”, a feasible business plan that is peer reviewed as yet, budget that has any reality about it or a business case study that would show how this project can be self funding. * It is clear from the case history of TCC that 'self funding” actually means ratepayers will cough up the exponential losses that repeatedly occur. * Up market Wellness Centre, it is clear that no one has looked at this project objectively and it is not peer reviewed. * We still do not know what option are being 'floated” or promoted besides that one presently before the Environment Court. (ix) WHAT HAS TCC ACTUALLY APPROVED PREVIOUSLY? * How is it that TCAL can accept a contract to build prior to Xmas 2010 yet there was no tendering of this job * Not even the Councillors knew the contract was signed. * Worst of all this was all done prior to the hearing of the RMA consent application which was declined in February 2011. (x) TCAL'S POTENTIAL SPENDING OR PLEDGING OF RATEPAYERS MONEY FOR THE NEXT YEAR BEING THE YEAR TO 30 JUNE 2012. Operating costs 2011/2012 (approximately) $ 4.8 m Interest paid by TCC for TCAL debts 2.0 m+ Wellness Center additions if proceeds # 10.5 m? Consultancy, planning fees, staff time etc, to Feb-2011 (failed RMA Consent) 3.0 m? RMA appeal - estimated costs, consultants and staff etc 0.5m + RMA appeal - estimated complete change of plans x 5 options etc unknown Mount Hotpools urgent repairs, additional works 1.5m + Otumoetai Pools, urgent repairs 0.5m + PR Consultant re Wellness Center/PR Advertising unknown Baywave, pool moveable floor & hydro-slide (?) 1.0 m+ Repayment of TECT Loan (due 25 July 2011) 4.0 m Possible total cost to ratepayers incurred this rating year is: $27.8 m (this represents about 29% of TCC rates pa, borrowed or not) My reference to the number of massages being 114 (not 144) was to illustrate the scale and magnitude of the obligation to earn income to pay the interest only on the debt TCAL proposes to incur. We know TCAL only gets 28% of the massage fees earned so the number needed of 114 was to illustrate the gulf between the interest to be paid and the earnings needed to pay it. What likely increase in the Hot Pools revenue will occur when reopened? Any extra income will have to be allocated elsewhere (not to the new debt) to shore up the losses the CEO has already 'spilled the beans” on. (xi) LOSSES CONFIRMED SO FAR The CEO admits that Baywave, Greerton, Otumoetai and Memorial Park all lose money every year, it is interesting to note that the two gym inclusive facilities at Baywave and Greerton do not make money, it is in fact more likely that they add to the losses based on the staff levels, remunerations paid, and membership rates collected. (xii) POTENTIAL NUMBERS AT THE WELLNESS CENTER There is no business case available to the public to substantiate any claims as to unlikely patronage of the Wellness Centre. The CEO says that there will be 15,000 customers a year, that means each will have to contribute to go to meet the TCAL interest charges and this represents $50 per person in interest alone before any other operating costs, wages etc are considered. (xiii) COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES The proposed café is yet another commercial activity that will simply compete with the multitude of privately owned cafes in the immediate vicinity. RECOMMENDATIONS a. Disclose all financial information about TCAL to 30 June 2011 immediately b. Make available the business case, budgets, business plans and any reports on the Wellness Center. c. Private Consultants reports, surveys and so related to the consent application and the proposed five new alternatives. d. TCC Councillors mandate should include a binding resolution that it CCO's (including TCAL) must be open transparent and accountable to ratepayers for the ratepayer provided funding that they spend on a timely and meaningful basis the TCC procurement policy should apply to all CCO's. The article above almost says that the "attacks" on the project are intended to be personal attacks on one or more individuals, that is indeed not the case. Hopwever such statements clearly indicate that the factual comments being made are being taken as a personal attack, when if considered professionally and on a factual basis then such a though would not arise. If there is a feeling of guilt, shame or otherwise for this project personally then those parties need to re-focus themselves on the project itself and let it stand or fall on its merits alone.
FOOLS AT THE POOLS
Posted on 01-09-2011 07:36 | By Hebegeebies
Yes Ian Stevenson that is a pretty good financial summary and I look forward to reading the TCAL and Ms. Delahunty's responses.The Mount Hotpools / Wellness Centre is dead in the water but the whole Tauranga Aquatics Policy needs a clean out.
Please Just Sort It
Posted on 01-09-2011 13:35 | By festino lente
Why does this saga just keep going around and around. Can TCAL and Ian not just get this all sorted. It does not seem that hard. All we get is issue upon issue, whilst in the meantime nothing actually changes. Raising issues and talking through points of view is vital in a democratic society. But nothing actually changing, or being learned from those discussions or views is just so wasteful. For goodness sake it is a couple of full time business's and a number of part time operations. It is really not that hard to just make it work, so the community, for whom the business's are supposed to exist, can actually be happy and proud of what our region has in terms of aquatic facilities. SORT IT OUT GUYS.
LENTIL, SEE THE MESSAGES?
Posted on 04-09-2011 10:46 | By RASPUTIN
Looks to me that TCAL are not telling the truth to the public, much information about that project is being hidden deliberately so no one really knows the truth of it, in end result ratepayers are landed with bills from all over the place for: PR consultants, planning consultants, lawyers and more. Millions later most of the information that we all want to see either: does not exist or is in "TCC confidentual" and so hidden from view of anyone competent. That is why this project still wanders along aimlessly, TCAL are not being honest with those who pay the money to pay their wages, the ratepayer.
I would love to be able to sort all out.
Posted on 04-09-2011 11:17 | By Ian Stevenson
The Mayor has refused to provide any appropriate information on TCAL, Hot Pools or otherwise. I have repeatedly offered to met the powers at be, yet to date that has failed to happen. In a workshop meeting at Council on 6/7/2009 Council resolved that TCAL would provide various financial information in three months, to date we have not seen anything at all Council's direction given to TCAL has been ignored completely to date. What that tells you is that the financial information fails to measure up. The informaiton relates to TCAL complying with the aquatics policy of Council, they clearly do not comply because if they did then I am sure the information would have been able to be supplied immediately. TCAL/TCC clearly need a lot of time to fudge the figures (two and a half years is not enough).
MAY THE TCAL TAB BE CLOSED
Posted on 04-09-2011 16:38 | By WORMTONGUE
Word has it that TCAL are to bail out of the Wellness Center plans at the Hot Pools before the hearing scheduled for later this month. This is as a result of the loss of "will" of Council to continue to ignore the will of the public at large and of course the mountain of bills that TCAL say they will pay and not ratepayers. Of course we all know now that TCAL can not pay it's own bills anyway without massive handouts from elsewhere (from our rates). Look forward to the decision being confirmed publically and of course lookout for the massive PR/spin/BS department to work the magic on this one ...
SPIN CITY RIDES AGAIN
Posted on 04-09-2011 17:16 | By Secret Squirrel
You may remember the program, but did you know that it is alive and kicking locally. Every sly ol dog needs a spin doctor to ensure that he does not have to go BACK 2 THE FUTURE to fix in the past by correcting the time on the town clock yet again! Where is Michael J Fox when you need a good PR man to fix ya clock!
TCAL MAKES A LOSS
Posted on 06-09-2011 00:46 | By PLONKER
I know pools make losses and a Council should provide them, but when you add up the $$ spent or committed or talk about being spent this year it adds to about $29m based on what is written in the paper to date, I would rather have 30% less in rates to pay, wouldn't you, and go have a swim in the sea for free ...
@ Secret Squirrel
Posted on 08-09-2011 16:52 | By CRUMPY
Michael J Fox, got a bit sick so I doubt he could help nor remember why he was helping, sad case really. But as it happens that actually is a good reflection of the state of things that exists generally at the Hot Pools. The comparison to MJF merely reflects the state of play there and the level of understanding of which way is up. They don't understand ...
COUNT DOWN TO OBLIVION!
Posted on 09-09-2011 09:33 | By Secret Squirrel
There can only be days left to the TCAL announcement of bailing out of any further fair brain schemes at the Hot Pools, maybe they will try and hide it in the media on the reopening day on 21/9/11?
PAID FROM DEPRECIATION?
Posted on 10-09-2011 19:35 | By WORMTONGUE
What does that mean, like when does that "not cost ratepayers" their hard earned money AGAIN, this is in fairy land, like the money has to come from somewhere? Could someone explain that part, like where does it really come from?
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