Taking of Land

Posted on 17-07-2011 15:27 | By tabatha

Does this mean that TCAL, Tani Delahunty's group want to leave the Camping ground alone? I know of friends who are wondering what is happening for this Christmas, they have applied to stay but are waiting to have their sites confirmed because of the availability, that is: what the plans are for taking camping sites away from the camping ground. It would be great for them and probably many others in the same boat if they could get clarity for their Christmas Holidays at the Mount. The camping ground at the foot of the Mount has for years been a busy place I can vaguely remember it in the early 1950's being full and vibrant, more tents then caravans in those days. My parents had left farming and of course people they knew would visit the Mount and we would trundle over from Levers Road via the old Welcome Bay Road to the Mount for most of a day to see them. A plea to TCAL please let people know what is happening re the camping ground. This is income for the TCC as well as for all the Mount businesses. The pool business has affected them now but what about the future for others.

secretive TCAL

Posted on 17-07-2011 17:15 | By Fonzie

Who are TCAL working for? Its hard to fathom this secretive outfit The Mount borough council set this facility up and an excellent well loved facility it is Tcal took over the management and run it down in anticipation of getting their grandiose plan spending huge amounts of funds on consultants etc and ignoring the wishes of the locals who love the pools and dont want huge debt on something that does not suit the area If these people are so hellbent on doing what they want do it somewhere else and with their own money

leave the fields alone!

Posted on 17-07-2011 17:22 | By claypole

The arrogance of Delahunty is beyond belief. The reserve land is not for development, it is for the enjoyment of generations to come to spend quality time camping at the beach. These sort of campgrounds are fast disappearing around New Zealand. Take a little piece of the cake now and in a few years the cry will go up for further expansion. Work within the existing footprint and leave the camp grounds alone. You have to question the people at TCC who allowed TCAL with DLH at the helm to control and establish huge salaries, staffing levels and non redundancy contracts.

the commissioner has done his job

Posted on 17-07-2011 20:29 | By sarahmary

Whats the point in having an independent commissioner if TCAL can spend the public purse like its holiday money until it gets its way. The commissioner explains everything clearly. Does TCAL plan to fill in some of pilot bay for carparking?

@ TABATHA

Posted on 17-07-2011 20:41 | By TERMITE

No ot does not! It means that they want to "stealth" in under the radar and get what "they WANT" despite the public being generally opposed to the concept. the poll results show clearly that most public support a revamp but not this proposal to carry out a complete massive and costly rebuild. On top of that TCAL don't have a business plan. Quote: not to plan is to plan for failure. Of course TCAL are expects at both and they are taught well by their leaders in TCC who are the masters of the PR machine.

Transparency?

Posted on 18-07-2011 01:07 | By PeteDashwood

This is just a disaster. I went to their blog and posted a non-hostile, civil entry, asking if they could comment on the truth or falsity of some of the claims being made here. 1. Was there no tender for awarding the maintenance contract? 2. Is it true it is being done by the contractors who were up for the redevelopment? 3. Is a three year old opinion poll, not conducted independently, a sufficient justification to claim that the public are behind the redevelopment, when the evidence is painfully apparent that they are not? 4. Is it true that the current problems were detected by a member of the public noticing temperature variations in the pools and not by TCAL monitoring staff? 5. Is it true that when this member of the public tried to raise the problem he was marked as a "troublemaker" and it was quite some time before real investigation was carried out. I DIDN'T ask if it is true that their CEO went on holiday while there was a crisis at the pools. Their blog is showing "no comments" since the last post to it 7 days ago. There is no sign of my post or any response to it. The inevitable conclusion has to be that the TCAL definiton of "transparency" is posting a few photos of work in progress to keep the plebs happy. There is no sign of any willingness to address the real issues that people here have raised. Needless to say, I will now be supporting the Mount Protection Society, although I was previously neutral. I really hope this redevelopment is not allowed to proceed and I think it is high time there was a change of management at TCAL. The Mount hotpools are a taonga and they deserve better guardianship than people who have no concept of accountability.

Well Done MPS

Posted on 18-07-2011 08:23 | By EYESPY

Good on you Fred Greenville and the MOUNT PROTECTION SOCIETY you are doing the job for all TAURANGA residents and all visitors to the MOUNT HOTPOOLS.You deserve their unqualified moral and financial support to fight this wrong.Take heart you have the full weight of the INDEPENDENT PLANNING COMMISSIONERS DECISION behind you.

Lawson00 listen to the public

Posted on 18-07-2011 08:39 | By tabatha

Lawson00 the public are not happy with the spend that seems to be continuous. If you are a ratepayer what happens if you get into heavy debt and unable to pay your rates, they are onto you, however if you are a ratepayer and the Council gets into debt we are charged more. A lot of people are saying stop the spending build up base and then re look. Interesting to date no replie like last week from TCAL yet, oh I forgot weekend and office mail to sort through check out what else has happened and then Joe Public might get an answer. Pete loved your questions, I bet we do not get an answer.

Done correctly Hot pools could be popular attraction

Posted on 18-07-2011 08:52 | By wreck1080

People visit Iceland just for the hot pools (see www.bluelagoon.com ) If done well, it can be an enormous attraction to the area. I'm a newish resident here and I can see there is certainly a strong anti-development / progress lobby here in Tauranga. Maybe it is the large number of retirees here? We are virtually broke as a city and our rates are rising faster than at any other council. However, in my opinionthey should spend the money on making the pools a world class facility. This can be paid for by reductions in other areas of council spending and ring fenced debt. Possibly the whole redevelopment could be spun off as a limited liability company. Then it would receive proper financial scrutiny. Maybe it will end up failing? But , maybe it will be a huge success too. The risk is worth taking.

Posted on 18-07-2011 09:20 | By SpeakUp

Parasites of public funds are weaving their web of smokescreens and stealthy operations. They trample on public opinion and embezzle ratepayers' money for their agenda. It is a disgrace. Fellow citizens, you are not alone in your outrage! A new era of public scrutiny and public discussion is emerging. The public will take back its democratic power some ‘administrators' abuse for their hidden agenda. No more secrecy! No more clandestine operations! No more misappropriation of public funds for corporate or private profit while the ratepayer has to service an ever-increasing debt (half a billion $$$ for Tauranga alone). The public demands transparency, disclosure and integrity from our public servants. The CMC investigates, scrutinizes and publicizes bureaucratic filth and arrogance. -Citizen Monitoring Council-

This Is Ridiculous

Posted on 18-07-2011 11:41 | By Jitter

The origional cost published for the whole development some two years ago was $7.5 million. In this latest report it has increased to $10.7 million an increase of $3.2 million. At this rate on completion (if it goes ahead) it will probably have increased to between $15 and $20 million. This is crazy unless the whole project is financed by private investors and absoluetly no ratepayer money is involved. However I cannot see any savvy private investor being interested. TCAL/TCC keep telling us that entry fees will not increase. Yeah right !! I fully support the refurbishment of the pools and facilities but definitely do not support this unneccessary grandiose development which the city cannot afford. Nobody in TCAL/TCC has yet come up with facts and figures to support this develoment. As has been stated many times such a development will also completely ruin the environment around The Mount. Tania Delahunty and her senior managers should take a serious look at themselves and ask "Have we really been responsible over our decisions for this project ?" At this rapidly increasing cost I can see the hot pools becoming a massive costly white elephant of a mistake, running at a massive loss far into the future. I believe Delahunty's and her senior managers jobs are right on the line over this one. If it proves to be a failure they should be quickly shown the door.

Facebook site for information and questions

Posted on 18-07-2011 13:04 | By TCAL

We have set up a Facebook site where we have posted lots of information, including about the normal mediation process, part of which is the mediation to follow tomorrow, which was approved by Council and in which we will present revised plans that take into consideration the points made by the Commissioner. Other information includes the cost of the project, which is indeed $7.5M. The Facebook is a forum where questions can also be asked and answered. Please visit: http://www.facebook.com/newmounthotpools

Management by Social Network?

Posted on 18-07-2011 13:49 | By PeteDashwood

Facebook is a two edged sword and it is in decline (20 million people left it last month; Google+ is impacting it). While it is good that TCAL has a presence there, you cannot assume that everyone who is interested or cares about the hot pools will visit Facebook. Neither should they be required to. Would you claim that your official "voice" is now a social network primarily frequented by angst-ridden teenagers who believe that the world is interested in every thought that goes through their heads? No, respond to people through the channels THEY choose, not the channels YOU choose. Posting here is good (although it would be nice to see some substance to the posts), the blog is good (if you run it properly as a Web Log with daily updates and comments), and proper Press releases are also good. BUT, address the issues being raised. Don't just raise a smokescreen of "see the appeals process". You can have all the communication outlets provided by a modern society but, if the content is just dribble, they are worthless. People very soon realise that the "signal to noise" ratio is so sparse as to make tuning in pointless. (It is like listening to a radio station that is not "on the station".) TCAL DOES need to respond and it shouldn't just be "damage control". It should be a full and frank posting of answers to the questions asked. If you screwed up, (and it is pretty obvious that you did), then admit it and let us know that lessons have been learned and the future will be different. If you can't do that then maybe you might be better off in a different job?

@Tabatha

Posted on 18-07-2011 14:14 | By PeteDashwood

Thanks for your comment. The fact is that a lot of heat has been generated around the mismanagement of the Hot Pools maintenance and possible redevelopment. It is very important that the essential issues remain clear and do not go away. A responsible management team would address these questions without deflection or smokescreen, even if the answers are not favourable to them. Then we could at least respect them for honesty, and hopefully, by looking at these questions, they would gain some insight into how things should be handled in the future. (Asking questions has been a pertinent way to modify behaviour since the time of Socrates :-))

TCAL do listen to TCC (Tui)

Posted on 18-07-2011 15:20 | By claypole

interested in post by TCAL in that TCC agreed to go to mediation. Does that mean that TCC also agreed for TCAL to appeal the commissioners decision. If TCC didnt, are TCAL therefore full of their own self importance. Re the mediation process which is voluntary so long as all parties agree to it, if no agreement is reached between the parties, are TCC going to agree to let the process continue and for TCAL to take the appeal to a court hearing???

Lost revenue

Posted on 18-07-2011 18:22 | By Southie

What about the loss of revenue from the summer campers at our iconic holiday park. The park will be losing a significant amount of sites and will cause major disruption creating a messy work site and timing of redirecting services gas power, water of which will cause further delays. Bookings have been made for christmas as my family is one of them. We have rung the holiday park for 2 months now as confirmation letters are usually sent out May/June and deposits paid. We were told by the lovely folk at the park they were sorry but they cannot confirm any bookings in the park including those on the beachside, as they may have to relocte bookings to accomodate those that may loose sites on Harbourside of the park to redevelpment. If this development goes ahead the whole park will be disrupted in fact they already are disrupted I feel sorry for them as campers are angry. There are folk that have been camping at this park for 20years plus. I asked when a decision will be made on bookings they could not answer me. Will TCAL not commit to a start date if they win this appeal. Surely council are aware we are talking about hundreds of families here would you run a business this way?. Can council not surley control the start time if it goes ahead and insist on a certian date then at least all of these families can carry on with our summer bookings as we have missed the boat else where now. The injection of revenue from these campers during summer into businesses and local community surely must be a factor.

Disruption

Posted on 18-07-2011 18:54 | By Southie

We are a family also waiting for confirmation for our hard earnt holiday. We stay at the fabulous campground for 1 month and have many visitors during that time. We dine out and shop locally. I agree with Tabatha I dont think the powers that be are aware of the distruption it has caused hundreds of families, as it is not just the harbourside of the park but the whole park cannot be confirmed as families will have to be relocted. Does Council not have the power to make a business decision and tell TCAL if they do win the appeal you cannot start development until after summer. If they start in the next few months I am sure the disruption will be more than 25 or so sites what about the thought of camping in a consrtuction site will we have power and water ? The loss of revenue to the community will be significant if they are intending to start straight away ..I cannot see this as the envionment court process will take months ..so why not let the Holiday park get on with business and allow them to process bookings please!!

@ JITTER

Posted on 19-07-2011 00:16 | By TERMITE

Yes but actually it is worse than that really, becasue the Massage palour and other additions will not make a profit it is impossible to do that. Of ccourse they have no idea that they have no idea, they are in a completely blessful world full of butterflies and all that. Mean while in the real world the losses will mean even more cash from ratepayers will be needed than now to pay the bills at TCAL. More losses = more bills = more money needed = more rates needed ... or more debt ...

NOT TCAL BORROWING?

Posted on 19-07-2011 12:18 | By WOFTAM

It can only be TCC and TCC alone, that really means "THE TURKEYS OF TAURANGA" are going to pay like it or not, interest debt and losses will just mount up at the mount.

@ By TERMITE

Posted on 19-07-2011 19:50 | By Nigel Barker

I believe that they do know what they are doing - it has all been very very cleverly & well orchestrated. Far to many 'coincidences' to think/believe other wise. I believe there are some very smart & intelligent people behind the scenes pulling the strings. There are a lot of egos at stake here. Concern for TCC Ratepayers is NOT what this is about. If it was the system would have taken notice and acted in the best interests of The Ratepayer. I along with others have questions we would like to ask face to face out in the open... better chance of a rate reduction!! The system is rotten. Bureaucrats + Council = The System -Citizens Monitoring Council-