No go on tsunami sirens

Tauranga city councillors are going back to square one on the tsunami sirens issue after learning the contracted system will cost $2.3 million when its budget was $1.05 million.

Councillors agreed on Monday to have a workshop to discuss the planned tsunami system including whether the council actually needs them and when they should be built.

Councillors will hold a workshop to discuss tsunami sirens.

Against opposition from ‘air raid' siren proponents councillors Bill Grainger and Murray Guy, the council in July 2012, contracted Meerkat Systems to design and obtain consent for a tsunami warning system. The council has spent $190,000 so far.

In February 2013 council staff learned Meerkat could not deliver the required specification of 80 per cent coverage in outdoor at risk areas on budget.

City Engineer Howard Severinsen was grilled by councillor David Stewart over the report, which David described as alarming, disappointing and almost embarrassing that the city council has got to the situation it is in.

'Finding out Meerkat Alert Systems only give 50 per cent coverage? When did we find that out? How come we have got all the way down this track and we have only just found out, recently obviously, we weren't getting what we thought we were getting. How did that happen?”

Acoustic consultants and noise control engineers Marshall Day examined the Meerkat system for the council and the staff became aware of problems just before Christmas, says Howard. But it wasn't until February Tauranga City Council staff found out Meerkat couldn't deliver with the system they designed.

'We were promised a system that would give the 80 per cent design-build, turnkey operation,” says David.

'Was the meeting before Christmas, the meeting with the Meerkat versus the wind up World War Two ones - did we not know at that stage that they weren't able to give us what we thought?”

While it was disappointing to learn the Meerkat system didn't perform, Howard says he's extremely pleased they did the due diligence and had it checked by the acoustic consultants.

The Meerkat system also raised resource consent issues including that public notification would be required.

'Where was the professional planning advice on this?” asks David.

'Couldn't we get that advice from our staff before we put an application in, that it was likely to be a notified one and that we were likely to run into problems - without going all the way down the road that we have, putting an application forward and then having that come back at us, that we are up against the wall.

Howard says council did take advice on how the application was likely to be treated by planners.

'In their defence a planner can't say ‘I will treat this application in this manner', before they see the application,” says Howard.

David says council staff could have got a 'steer” before the application was lodged.

'We could have got a pretty good steer that we were running into problems before, as you would do if you were putting forward your own resource consent application.

'So why couldn't we have got that, and then come back to council and we could have weighed up our odds and probabilities?”

Meerkat systems are installed in Rodney, Christchurch and Waitakere, and Howard says they were confident they had overcome any planning hurdles.

Meerkat employed a reputable Tauranga based planning company to put the application together.

'The signals were reasonably positive until we found out that the wheels were falling off it,” says Howard.

The last question was about the worst case tsunami heights, a 13 metre tsunami from the Kermadec Trench.

Previous information to council is the biggest risk of destructive tsunamis is from further away, like Chile where there will be plenty of warning, says David.

The Kermadecs are considered less of an actual tsunami risk for the Bay of Plenty because of the north south direction of the trench, so big waves will travel east/west away from it, rather than towards New Zealand.

'I just feel unsettled that the information we get and put faith in is changing from one thing to another without much explanation,” says David. 'How credible is the status of the information we have got.”

Councillors agreed to stop the Meerkat contract process and hold a workshop.

Councillors are questioning the worth of tsunami sirens with some saying they are a comfort blanket.

Councillor Terry Molloy says they are as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.

38 comments

Sirens

Posted on 10-04-2013 13:57 | By bopsaint

In the mean time as if enough time hasn't already elapsed we have a tsunami.Whats with our stupid Council who cannot come to a decision. Pathetic.


Couldn't organise a p up at a brewery???

Posted on 10-04-2013 14:02 | By Phailed

More proof, if any was needed of what I think is the incompetence of Council in getting a good price on anything. It seems even worse in anything with a business component. Look at the hotpools fiasco. I've got a few more descriptions to go with Terry Molloy's one, but mine are my thoughts about Council. Couldn't organise a siren in an air raid shelter! Couldn't sell a hotel deal in Disneyland! Couldn't get wet in a swimming pool! Any other ideas welcome.


You have got to be joking TCC!!!

Posted on 10-04-2013 14:38 | By gothebay

You have got to be kidding me, after $190,000 of our Tauranga Rates money has been blown by this financially irresponsible council we have been left with nothing, and some councillor referring to the sirens as 'ashtrays on motor bikes'. I don't think they have any comparison, this is a life saving tool, as research shows we are very vulnerable to a tsunami and warning systems only protect us the citizens. If the company 'Meerkat Systems' which this council picked, cannot produce a product that the council has asked for then cant they seek damages or refund of initial payment! Tauranga people, you have to do something about this council! I applaud David for his remarks, but the whole council took a half arse approach to this circumstance in the first place. Naming only one operator to install and quote this job was absurd and should have been rigorous tender processes, well done to the Papamoa Progressive Association for seeking alternatives and demanding answers from this council. Council members you are paid by us the people of Tauranga, and you should be looking to stick up and protect us, that's what we voted you in for.


How did it happen ...

Posted on 10-04-2013 14:43 | By Murray.Guy

Somebody give David Stewart a wide angle mirror!


Talk about putting a nail in your own coffin

Posted on 10-04-2013 14:51 | By waiknot

It looks to me like a few volunteers offering redundant advise lining themselves up for redundancy.


.

Posted on 10-04-2013 15:00 | By Wisefrog

Why was the council deceived!!!!Surely a budget of what they can afford should equate to what is available???? Surely lives mean more than a dollar sign?????


.

Posted on 10-04-2013 15:14 | By NZgirl

How much does the council think the clean up will be after a tsunami both to life and property if decent sirens aren't erected??


Breathtaking

Posted on 10-04-2013 15:17 | By penguin

The incompetency of the councillors and some staff leaves one speechless!!! Private enterprise would not survive being run in such a manner...


Councillor Terry Molloy

Posted on 10-04-2013 15:32 | By Papamoaner

Piggy Muldoon would have said Terry Molloy hasn't done his homework. Sirens are urgently needed for one type of tsunami - regional source tsunami that can have anything between 20 minutes and 90 minutes warning. Thousands of lives could be saved in that time with proper use of sirens ie; automatic radio broadcasts etc. Terry's ashtray on a motorbike comment is not intelligent and contributes nothing constructive to the general argument.


I Believe Not the Elected members!

Posted on 10-04-2013 15:42 | By tabatha

Something in my memory banks tells me it was a backroom decision yet again. How much have these backroom people cost the ratepayers of Tauranga City Council? They can put the facts forward with their recommendations and also information about the other options but final decision has to be made by EM's who if necessary seek public opinion or should I say MUST seek public opinion. Too many Ostriches, head in the sand EM's.


Go David Stewart, get stuck in

Posted on 10-04-2013 15:57 | By Contradictus

Council seems to be about as capable as a one- legged man in an ass kicking contest.


What a balls up !

Posted on 10-04-2013 16:37 | By Jitter

Why didn't TCC and involved staff investigate the Meerkats properly ? What an indictment on both council and staff. If this is an indication of the intelligence and performance level of both councillors and staff then God help Tauranga. They have now shown what a pack of clowns we have supposedly running the city. It is now around seven years since this excercise started and we are no closer to a solution. In fact we have gone backwards about five years. Roll on the elections and lets hope some people with common sense and good business aptitude will stand for council.


Cr David Slept through it

Posted on 10-04-2013 17:29 | By PLONKER

Above it says "How come we have got all the way down this track and we have only just found out ..." well that is because staff did not want you to know, but thanks to many memebers of the public that issue "got in your face" and just enough to wake up the sleep hallows at TCC. Nothing "alarming" here for anyone else ... real question here is who gets the bonus pay rise and warmer seat for this mess?


Murray

Posted on 10-04-2013 17:43 | By TERMITE

No mate, the blinkers fell off momentarily that is all, to little to late and that is not an accident waiting to happen. The Leader would have given permission for him to run a speel on this and once done would have immedately reinserted the "yes-man" chip so as peace and tranquility was restored.


Spend ups for nothing ...

Posted on 10-04-2013 17:59 | By TERMITE

Nothing to show for it, lots of TCC staff time wasted on adventures off into la-la land


Yes Murray

Posted on 10-04-2013 18:01 | By TERMITE

But the "wide angle mirrir" is being a bit generous, more like a momentary lapse of concentration kicked in I think.


Crs were told numerous times

Posted on 10-04-2013 18:03 | By Steve Morris

that the cost would blow out throughout the process by us, most chose not to listen. A bit rich for councillors to be criticising staff for their own poor judgement. With respect Cr D Stewart was told, he didn't believe us.


Another perfect TCC project?

Posted on 10-04-2013 18:04 | By TERMITE

Cost to much, wasted of time, no idea what doing, Councillors approved of it and it is over budget before they knew it ... a perfect TCC project for sure.


TSUNAMI WARNING

Posted on 10-04-2013 18:06 | By mikedean

Forget the WW2 sirens.We at Papamoa have not even heard the tests.I say again what I suggested before. Fit out 2 or 3 fixed wing planes or helicopters to clip on a harness fitted with bright lights, sirens, a trailing sign or LED sign warning of a Tsunami. Simple, economic, fast to cover all the BOP, very obvious day or night and covering all the Bay area.TRY IT ! Mike Dean


With due respect to the Pied PIper

Posted on 10-04-2013 18:40 | By Hebegeebies

From street to street they piped advancing And step by step they followed Into the valley of financial doom Stode the hundred and twenty thousand.Now isn't that a good little parable for this lot of woebetideyous.


Spend the most

Posted on 10-04-2013 19:44 | By PLONKER

Seems to be the game plan here, when all goes to custard then cry foul about anyione else, as a collective group the Councillors alone are 100% responsible for this mess, they should each have to pay 1/11th each of the $190,000 (except if they voted against it) into TCC to reimburse the costs. Steve Morris is right, they were all told repeatedly ... over and over in fact al the COuncillors and/or staff had to do was wander down to teh "Sound off" and hear the answer .. cost $10 for petrol for a return trip ex the CBD, message received, heard loud and clear. How simple does it have to be to get the right answer in these things when every possible oppurtunity is presented on a silver platter.


APPALLING STATE OF AFFAIRS

Posted on 10-04-2013 20:58 | By RORTSCAM

These TCC bozos know SFA about SFA and that is the one certainty in all of this mess. What a pigs breakfast of a fiasco it is not to mention the obscene cost involved - it was over the top at $1.05m let alone $2.3m or more likely $3m when it was finally completed. And what about the assessment costs incurred to date which total $190,000 + for doing what exactly along with a projected annual maintenance bill of $50,000pa. Just go with the economic efficient Air Raid sirens @ $200,000 (one off cost) and be done with it because this is what the Coastal residents want. Of course sirens will not save your life but read my lips it GIVES YOU A WARNING SOMETHING IS AMISS and you need to take some evasive action. Some of the Councillors comments posted are unbelievable and show why they should not be there and should never be re elected to TCC. The whole saga is a disgrace, a prime illustration of inefficiency financial profligacy and incompetence which seems to be par for the course for this TCC outfit.


Jitter

Posted on 10-04-2013 22:57 | By Crash test dummies

Never would happen as predetermined choice made, this is just a typical TCC decision just happens that this one has come to the surface that's all.


Council couldn't organise a sh*t fight in a sewerage plant?

Posted on 10-04-2013 23:21 | By Phailed

Every now and then I feel like telling Council to stick to the basics, but they can't even get that right. Goodness knows how much is wasted on other plans and schemes?


tut tut

Posted on 11-04-2013 08:06 | By HPBenjamin

More cups of tea and biscuits...and we wait...more cups of tea...more biscuits...Oh no we cant make a decision !! useless...plain useless.


Mike Dean

Posted on 11-04-2013 11:21 | By Papamoaner

Suggesting aircraft to warn of a tsunami due to arrive in say 30 minutes is not a very bright idea given that it would take longer than that to get one up in the air. Sirens are instant, which is why we need them.


Leave them to it & go it alone

Posted on 11-04-2013 21:31 | By Investigator

@STEVE MORRIS >>>of course you , the Papamoa Progressive Association and Papamoa Residents spelled it out to TCC and to all the Councillors and even had meetings with them all to no avail - they even ridiculed your options. Well who has egg all over their faces now and that is putting it politely. Your 10 Tactool Air Raid sirens will cost around $200k maybe less if strategically placed and will not require RMA consents if matter is approached in the right way. So just go it alone and let the TCC wombats wallow in it.GO to TECT or similar for your funding as a community project you cannot miss.TCC Council can then play among themselves as much as they like without the bloody football.


Steve told them

Posted on 12-04-2013 12:52 | By YOGI

The words were clear and obvious, but onward they went, TCC staff "knew best" and the results are obvious then and now.


A normal day at TCC

Posted on 12-04-2013 19:25 | By PLONKER

Blown $190,000 on a wild goose chase and nothing at all to show for it, please tell me if I missed something?


Comfort blanket?

Posted on 13-04-2013 07:13 | By Papamoaner

It is concerning to hear some councillors questioning the need for sirens when sirens are the only warning device that alerts you whether you are at home or in town, inside or outside, and not dependent on things like texting which can fail or be overloaded in an emergency and everybody tries to text at once and communications break down en masse due to overload. Civil defence authorities who fail to warn the public of impending disaster, or warn too late, are culbable, so get on with it councillors.


papamoaner

Posted on 13-04-2013 16:24 | By PLONKER

I dont think that they are so much questioning the need for them, it is more of a knee jerk type reaction to havng stumbled on the obvious so they are lashing out at others for the failed governance role that "they" have.


Kermadec trench tsunami

Posted on 14-04-2013 07:18 | By Papamoaner

Councillor david Stewart says a wave from the Kermadec trench will be directional and miss the Bay of Plenty. If he got that from a scientist I reckon the scientist is wrong, as they sometimes are. You don't have to be a scientist to know that when a stone is dropped into water, waves travel out in all directions. Are these guys now brewing up excuses for not having sirens at all, or is it just a delay tactic until after the local body elections?


Think about this...

Posted on 15-04-2013 13:45 | By earlybird

who do you think is going to be brave enough to press the button to activate the sirens if & when they are installed. The resulting panic after the sirens go off will undoubted result in injuries perhaps a death or two as people scramble to safety. What if it's a false alarm - you lot, if yiou run true to form, would want the person responsible locked up forever. So who is going to take that risk and push the button? Would you? It's easy to point the finger and make snide comments from the comforts of your own home about others who are trying to find a solution - but would you push the button to activate the sirens? It's a very big call.


Earlybird

Posted on 15-04-2013 16:15 | By Papamoaner

Might be a good idea to do your homework. Siren buttons get regularly pushed all around the world, and nobody is going to point a finger at the odd false alarm, especially as the sirens are just a warning to listen to the local radio station for details. In todays Israel, sirens are saving lives daily, sometimes with only 15 minutes warning of an incoming missile. The fire service get called to false alarms, but it doesn't result in finger pointing.


Push the button?

Posted on 15-04-2013 16:30 | By YOGI

Well maybe so, but the other option is that everyone just carry on with daily life for 30 minutes then it is all over rover ... out to sea we go. Same category as the 10.000 odd japanese that have not yet been found I guess. There will be many deaths, there will be such a log jam but if some get out then it is worth it.


We do our best

Posted on 15-04-2013 19:36 | By Papamoaner

You would surely have to agree then, that casualty minimisation is what it's all about.


Papa Moaner

Posted on 16-04-2013 09:24 | By YOGI

Agree completely, but to do that Merkat was always to be a failure, at least for the last 70+ years a air raid siren has worked. So as usual TCC has to try and reinvent the wheel and as usual it is a large mess followed by a mammoth coverup.


Mobile Phone Worked but..

Posted on 14-11-2016 16:14 | By tabatha

I got a series of warnings by mobile phone first 2.04am then 2.40am then 4.21am and finally at 8.20am and the only one I heard was the last one, so Tauranga City Council if I slep through a loud noise on my phone how many others did? Re visit and talk to your Steve Morris about cheaper version. Keep the CEO and his henchmen out of the discussion do your homework..


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