Forced learning 'smacks of fascism'

While I Brougham may not be 100 per cent correct in his assessment of te reo (The Weekend Sun, September 22) he has a point.

Te reo is only a treasure to Maori and the odd trendy lefty European. If anyone wants to learn the language or want their children to learn it then that should be done in their own time rather than take up valuable lesson spaces that equip our young to manage in the real world when they leave school.

Wanting to force people to learn any language apart from the spoken and written word that is in universal use or the classics smacks of fascism and should be frowned on by all.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to learn te reo but force it on people and there will be a negative reaction as there has been in the UK. Currently many authorities are taking down all multi language signage and replacing them with English only. PC is starting to lose the battle in the UK.

A Bourne, Bethlehem.



58 Comments

MISS ADVENTURE, apartheid was minority control of government

Posted on 18-10-2017 11:59 | By Peter Dey

MISS ADVENTURE, people who seem to dislike Maori progress in our mainstream culture describe the increased place of Maori culture as apartheid. They are misusing the word apartheid the same as they misuse the word separatism. They misuse these words to make Maori progress seem bad for society. Maori progress is not Maori control of Government, so it is not apartheid or separatism, and it is not bad for society.

MISS ADVENTURE, separate cultures are not separatism worldwide

Posted on 18-10-2017 11:48 | By Peter Dey

MISS ADVENTURE, all around the world separate cultures exist side by side and do not want to withdraw from the mainstream. This is not separatism. This is what Maori want in New Zealand. Compulsory Maori language in primary schools is not fascism, because it would be introduced by a democratically elected Government. Non-Maori politicians would make the decision. They would do this because it would benefit all pupils to experience a second language at an early age.

??? separate organisations

Posted on 18-10-2017 08:25 | By MISS ADVENTURE

Peter, that is what you say. For decades you have refused and denied that "separatism" exists but now you are saying that it is not what it actually is? Perhaps you ould explain, you know in your own words as you want to "make it all up" fashion of how this is 'different' to South Africa?

Crazyhorse, there is no Maori separatism

Posted on 17-10-2017 09:12 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, separatism means wanting to withdraw from the mainstream. Maori do not want to do that. They are enjoying increased integration into the mainstream. The fact that they retain their own separate language and culture, and separate activities is not separatism. Multicultural societies are like this all around the world. Maori do have separate ownership rights to natural resources that were granted in the Treaty of Waitangi, which is now New Zealand law.

Get it right crazyhorse,

Posted on 17-10-2017 08:21 | By R. Bell

for once in your life. Winston Peters is possibly the most experienced politician ( not leader) in N.Z. He simply states the obvious, slanted to suit his support group (Grey power etc) who are fixated on the "one people" impossibility. The "list of Maori only" rubbish is further evidence of your detachment from reality. The best yet Maori only CO-GOVERNANCE, for crying out loud man, how can you have "CO" anything and be the only participant. grow up man. Happy to "debate"all other similar claims, two or three at a time. Robin Bell.

APOLOGIST PETE & CO.

Posted on 16-10-2017 15:14 | By crazyhorse

After all of Pete's comments, the only thing I can take out of them is that maori and their "Klingon's" say "separatism is mainstream in New Zealand, no one can argue that there are not many policies, groups, and funding directed at maori only, people say no, it's for everyone but the truth is it's not, read all of Peters comments here and all he is saying is that there is maori separatism but we can't call it that because thats just normal New Zealand now, "Honest" Dougy Graham said about 3 months ago there are different laws for maori and we better get used to it , will it ever stop, NO because there is too much money to be made, look what iwi and their treaty troughers are after at the moment, fresh water & the entire foreshore and seabed, "WTFU".

Crazyhorse, your concerns are irrational

Posted on 16-10-2017 10:57 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, your concern that Maori could take control of New Zealand is irrational. Maori make up 15 per cent of the population. They can never take control. Compulsory Maori in primary schools will be decided by non-Maori politicians, not by Maori, so both you and A.Bourne should stop fretting. It will happen eventually because it is educationally beneficial for all primary students to start a second language. Even Bill English now agrees.

MISS ADVENTURE, insults prove nothing

Posted on 16-10-2017 10:17 | By Peter Dey

Anybody of Maori ancestry is Maori by law. There is no legal term 'part-Maori'. People who use the term are either simply making an insult or they are ignorant.

Crazyhorse, consultation is not control

Posted on 16-10-2017 10:01 | By Peter Dey

The RMA allows for consultation with Maori. The RMA does not give control of anything to Maori. Maori have a separate culture and language. It harms nobody for them to have separate organisations to exercise their language and culture. Maori organisations control nothing in mainstream society. They are simply an integrated part of the mainstream. Crazyhorse, your resentment of them seems irrational.

@ bella donna

Posted on 15-10-2017 17:34 | By MISS ADVENTURE

Part Maori from 150 years ago is no longer exists, only the moriori part remains and continues through to today.

The path of separatism under National.

Posted on 15-10-2017 17:33 | By crazyhorse

NZ First leader Winston Peters said that under the new RMA bill, every council would is required by law to invite local iwi to participate in the formulation of policy plans, including water management plans."This is just the starting point," Mr Peters said. "Iwi really want much, much more."He said the Freshwater Iwi Leaders Group had stated goals including ownership of all Crown-owned river and lake beds and the water column."It is obvious that National have been brownmailed into making policy concessions to the Maori Party. They were bent over a barrel and, not surprisingly, didn't have the backbone to stand up to them.The RMA is a sign to the entire country that the two parties are taking us down the track of separatism. We are no longer one people. We are moving towards two separate groups with separate rights."

Absolute rubbish crazyhorse.

Posted on 15-10-2017 16:30 | By R. Bell

There are more Maori graduating university today than ever before. Contrary to what you may claim, they pass the same exams as all other graduates in whatever discipline they choose. Last year 49 graduated Otago as Doctors. John Tamahere is one voice of over 20 yrs ago.He is also a voice for urban Maori, who by their own choice, often remain separate from their iwi. Thousands of young Maori are being supported by Settlement funding. You are completely out of touch with reality. Come home from Queensland and seek the truth, it's not hard to find. Robin Bell.

Crazyhorse, separate Maori organisations do not harm you

Posted on 15-10-2017 16:09 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, you misuse the word separatism, and so do others. Separate Maori organisations are now an integrated part of mainstream New Zealand. Your list of Maori-only organisations such as Maori schools, and co-management of parks, rivers, and coastline includes nothing that causes you any major harm. You are resentful because the Government is showing goodwill toward Maori, but it is not affecting you significantly at all.

Tribal leaders need

Posted on 15-10-2017 15:03 | By crazyhorse

Without a doubt, New Zealand is a tolerant society that embraces many views within a strong common culture. Yet, generations of politicians have reinforced tribalism and separatism through tax-payer funded settlements and generous government contracts. This has created the incentive for tribal leaders to not only promote sovereignty but to also pass radical ideas on to the young. As a result, far too many tribal members are isolated from the mainstream and live on the fringes of society, where they are detached from education, suffer poor health, lack the skills needed to get a good job and are burdened with a permanent sense of grievance

Tamihere on maori party & separatists.

Posted on 15-10-2017 14:59 | By crazyhorse

John Tamihere on the start of the maori party."The rise of the Maori Party is unfortunate and frustrating for politicians like myself," he said. "Frustrating because the party is led by very well off, very senior and very articulate Maori educationalists, academics and the new elite around the Treaty of Waitangi - chequebooks." He believed the party would be a magnet for the variant elements within Maoridom. "I am pleased all the separatists now have a party to join, but we now must see it for what it is: "The biggest duping exercise carried out on Maori by Maori this century." He called for all New Zealanders to move forward together and warned about the dangers of separation."We can no longer tolerate Maori merely screaming the treaty and believing they deserve preferential entitlements."

In reply to groutby.

Posted on 15-10-2017 08:56 | By R. Bell

The notion that comment columns are intended for debate is clearly erroneous. Of all people you should realise that fact. Over the years you have asked me for answers to many questions, only to disappear into the ether. That is not debate, it is simply applying leading questions as a form of criticism. You go on to question my rationality without giving any example of it. That is not debate, particularly in view of the further fact that you never question those I appose, crazyhorse,missy etc. Using that logic, you are clearly a supporter of the race based views they express. Robin Bell.

@ groutby

Posted on 14-10-2017 00:41 | By MISS ADVENTURE

Your mistake here is that you asked for "more informaiton" that is automatically taken as a challenge, a threat and Robin then sets off all the alarm bells for africa, the threat dares reveal itself. This hostile response is not about anything else except that you dared to question, nothing more. The response and level of reply would best be reflected by the easily calculated survival rate of anyone who questioned Adolf. We are saved simply by the internet, anything else and we would all be doomed to a terrible and permanent fate .... God-save-the-Ratepayer (and Robin and Pet ...),-as-no-one-else-wants-to,-10/4-out! (and Robin and Pet ...)

Crazyhorse, you have repeated what I said

Posted on 13-10-2017 17:18 | By Peter Dey

Women want separate toilets. They do not want apartheid (separatism). Maori want separate organisations. They do not want separatism. Crazyhorse, you are accusing Maori of wanting separatism, which they do not want, because you do not understand the meaning of the word 'separatism'. Ask an English language teacher.

Crazyhorse, a more simple explanation for you

Posted on 13-10-2017 16:57 | By Peter Dey

Public toilets are separate. This is not separatism. Maori organisations are separate. This is not separatism.

Crazyhorse, just pointing out you don't understand separatism

Posted on 13-10-2017 16:46 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, you are obsessed over separatism and yet you do not understand the meaning of the word. Separate does not mean the same as separatism. No Maori organisation wants separatism. They are making great progress integrating into wider New Zealand society. Separatism has no more to do with Maori organisations than it has to do with public toilets. New Zealand does not have separatism. You think it does but you do not understand the meaning of the word you use.

MISS ADVENTURE, Maori from 150 years ago is still understood

Posted on 13-10-2017 16:41 | By Peter Dey

MISS ADVENTURE, There is no significant difference between Maori language now and 150 years ago, just like English. Ask any expert.

The joke is on you Peter!

Posted on 13-10-2017 16:31 | By MISS ADVENTURE

Europeans wrote down various tribal dialects, the part Maori language of the time, perhaps 150+ years ago. and that was the first time it was written. What is now called terepo is not actually any of those it si at best a hotch-potch creation that has more of a relationship to Moriori than anything else.

@ crazyhorse

Posted on 13-10-2017 11:14 | By MISS ADVENTURE

True, oh when will the silent masses awaken to the rort unravelling.

Robin.......

Posted on 12-10-2017 21:21 | By groutby

....what I mean I would have thought quite straightforward, that one one basic comment alone is not enough information for an educated person to answer in a rational way...so I asked for "more information", so I and others could respond in an adult way and give an opinion to continue debate.As you say, " Attacking an argument is a far more accurate overview."..I need to read from that whatever rational comment is given, you will disagree at any extreme?..to the point where you become (I suggest only), quite irrational , and indeed cause an argument with possibly like minded writers, so we do not get to know their thoughts as they choose not to write...AND... there may well not be an "argument" to attack?..just a point of difference we are all able to share and learn from...give it a go, you may learn to like it....and learn....

Race based obsession

Posted on 12-10-2017 18:18 | By crazyhorse

How can you compare womans or men's toilets and changing rooms to maori "separatism"?, Sad Pete.

THE BEST THAT PETE CAN DO!

Posted on 12-10-2017 17:10 | By crazyhorse

To "justify" maori ""SEPARATISM", wait for it, Women want separate public toilets. This does not mean that they want separatism, how can that be comparable to race-based policies and politics? there is a huge difference between male and females and their privacy needs, no woman I talk to wants an aparthied nz.

Crazyhorse, you are avoiding again

Posted on 12-10-2017 16:57 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, you have avoided the question. What harm do Maori-only organisations do to you? You still do not seem to understand the meaning of separatism. Maori have separate organisations because they have a separate culture. But they wish to remain integrated into the mainstream. They do not want separatism. Your accusations of separatism are false. You do not seem to understand the meaning of the word separatism.

The Stench of Separatism.

Posted on 12-10-2017 14:01 | By crazyhorse

Is at it's highest at the moment with maori having their own schools and education system but then wanting to make learning of their language, culture and history into the schools for everyone else, including International students if anyone at school wants to learn maori they should be allowed to, but, not," forced to", we have students starting university who can barely read and write lets concentrate on whats ahead not behind .

Example of a true

Posted on 12-10-2017 13:53 | By crazyhorse

Radical Separatist and Treaty Lawyer, Atareta Ponanga ought to send shock waves throughout the country!You can read about her crimes and extreme bigotry in NZ Herald article Face of militancy debarred for forgery, posted at the bottom.Former activist turned Lawyer showed no remorse after falsifying Treaty signatures and struck offNow here is a Racist Bigot of the highest calibre.She Hates Pakeha.As a Maori Nationalist She absolutely Rejects The Treaty of Waitangi, calling Non-Maori New Zealanders Riff Raff, and says they ought to either Leave the country or accept Maori Sovereignty.How, I ask, was it possible that such a Lawyer who rejects British sovereignty though it was accepted by the Maori Chiefs who signed the treaty how has she been allowed to handle 35+ Treaty claims, involving *Much of the North Island*???!!!!

A.Bourne uses the word 'fascism' wrongly

Posted on 12-10-2017 13:32 | By Peter Dey

A.Bourne seems to think that anything made compulsory by the Government is fascism. Fascism is undemocratic dictatorial government rule. Education is compulsory in New Zealand so that we don't have to spend millions looking after uneducated adults later in life. It is now National Party policy for all primary students to spend one compulsory hour a week learning a second language. That will be a decision by a democratic government, not fascism. If they choose to make the second language Maori, that will also be democracy not fascism.

Crazyhorse, you confuse yourself with separate and separatism

Posted on 12-10-2017 13:15 | By Peter Dey

Women want separate public toilets. This does not mean that they want separatism.

Crazyhorse, Maori-only organisations do not harm you

Posted on 12-10-2017 12:42 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, you seem to have trapped yourself into a contradiction by misusing the word 'separatism'. Maori-only organisations are simply an opportunity for people of a different culture to do things in a way that suits them. This takes nothing from you. Tell us why you think these organisations are bad for you, and without misusing the word 'separatism'.

Crazyhorse, we are a nation of two cultures

Posted on 12-10-2017 12:19 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, a list of Maori only organisations does not prove separatism. It proves integration. These organisations are all part of mainstream New Zealand. They are not separatist. Maori language and culture exists. You cannot un-exist them. Wanting to remove them from mainstream society is separatism. We know they are different. That is not a reason to object to them. We now celebrate cultural differences. Those like you and Don Brash who want to sideline Maori culture are living in the past.

Crazyhorse, Maori organisations are not separatist

Posted on 12-10-2017 12:12 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, separatism is you wanting to force Maori organisations out of the mainstream. Maori organisations that are part of the mainstream is integration. New Zealand is becoming a more integrated society, which is not separatism. You are trying to confuse people by misusing words.

More

Posted on 12-10-2017 10:32 | By crazyhorse

* A special Maori Authority tax rate of 17.5 percent, * A special Maori-only exemption to allow blood relatives to qualify for charitable status, * Maori language funding, * Maori radio and TV, * Maori-only seats on local councils, * Maori-only appointments onto local government committees, * Maori-only local government Statutory Boards, * Maori-only local government advisory committees, * Maori seats in Parliament,

Separatism alive and growing in NZ

Posted on 12-10-2017 10:30 | By crazyhorse

* Maori-only schools, * Special Maori content in the education curriculum, * Maori-only education scholarships, * Maori-only housing projects, * Maori-only health initiatives, * Maori-only welfare initiatives, * Maori-only prisoner programmes, * Maori-only positions on government agencies, * Maori-only consultation rights under the Resource Management Act, * Maori-only co-management of parks, rivers, lakes, and the coastline, * Maori-only ownership rights to the foreshore and seabed,

Crazyhorse, you are confused

Posted on 12-10-2017 10:29 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, you say you oppose separatism, but your actions support separatism. New Zealand is now integrating Maori language and culture. They are different and separate but now part of the mainstream. Being different and separate is not separatism. Separatism is being outside the mainstream, which is what you want for Maori language and culture. Compulsory Maori in schools is integrating Maori language into the mainstream. Language experts agree that learning a second language in primary school is a huge advantage for learning as second language later. It is now National Party policy. Compulsory education is necessary to save children from ignorant parents, so we don't have to pay millions to support beneficiaries later.

Crazyhorse, you need more English language lessons

Posted on 12-10-2017 09:20 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse, you completely misuse the word separatism. The existence of Maori language and culture as part of mainstream New Zealand culture is integration. Maori language and culture is now being integrated into New Zealand society. You are the separatist because you want to keep Maori language and culture outside of the mainstream and separate from the mainstream. Maori do not want this. They are not separatist. You are the only separatist here.

Waste of time

Posted on 12-10-2017 04:47 | By AK Speculater

It is an utter waste of time learning Te reo if you don't want or need to learn it.This country operates fine with English as a first language.Kids are raised on English because it is a language that is common around the world.

Maori sovereignty

Posted on 11-10-2017 15:54 | By crazyhorse

Maori sovereignty or supremacy can never be achieved without the other 85% of NZrs agreeing, if that is right why are we now having unelected seats on local council, talk of compulsory maori in schools, Tuhoe had a clause put in their treaty settlement talking about them having Sovereignty, people can say what they like no one here can dismiss all the back door deals done under a maori national gov't, fancy national putting an unelected Ngai Tahu negotiator into a position like treaty minister and Attorney general, lol,if you have a chicken farm you don't put a fox in charge of it, that's what national did, from our chief justice to our race relations office all loaded, and not towards the other 85% of K1W1's, what a joke, MMP was put into place to stop this type of separatism and race-based politics,

Laurie, read your comment again.

Posted on 11-10-2017 15:31 | By R. Bell

You jump from what you call " shared sovereignty" to Maori supremacy over New Zealand.Maori sovereignty or supremacy can never be achieved without the other 85% of NZrs agreeing. Can you really see that happening, really Laurie. No matter what Marama Fox may say ( if she did say) It is a pipe dream. The Maori language is the key to better understanding, and a catalyst for closer, mutual respect. Your children loose nothing but gain a much better New Zealand than you have known. Embrace the long road to racial harmony. Robin Bell.

Maori World View - the truth behind compulsory Te Reo

Posted on 11-10-2017 13:25 | By Laurie

Marama Fox outlined the plan for shared sovereignty: It would take 36 yrs 12 election cycles for a Maori sovereignty party to share government its a radical vision but if we believe in it, then we need to march towards it. The critical step in shifting NZ thinking is to make Maori language a core subject in schools.Fox argued that people look at things differently once theyve acquired te reo. The Maori world view is different & thats expressed in the language. The language unlocks our history & our thinking.In other words, the compulsory teaching of the Maori is the key to imposing a Maori world view & Maori supremacy onto NZ . Its no wonder sovereignty advocates are so strongly pushing for the compulsory teaching of Te Reo Its a pre-requisite for their march to ultimate power.

If the subject is a serious one, crazyhorse

Posted on 11-10-2017 08:00 | By R. Bell

Why do you degenerate it into a farce, using terms like "brainwashing" and "separatism"and "racism" introduce a subject such as one woman confronting a bank teller? You then have the gaul to use the word "belittling", the fact is the teller gave as good as he got. Your prejudice is obvious to all. Robin Bell.

Mountains or mole hills, crazy

Posted on 10-10-2017 16:03 | By R. Bell

There is no point re- debating a subject, the issue at the bank is over. No this is not the way, I stated that at the time. However it is their democratic right to make the protest, just as it is yours, which you have done ad nauseum for years. I think you will find that your anecdotal reference to Ngai Tahu is rubbish, the usual alarmist bull**** we expect from you. Robin Bell.

Once again...........

Posted on 10-10-2017 14:59 | By crazyhorse

You're right Groutby, these topics are too important to let oneself get baited into personal comments especially if it means other people will not get involved and have a say, even if we don't all agree.Perhaps someone else could give their views on maori speakers wandering inro businesses pushing a video camera in someone's face and intimidating them or belittling them, I also wonder in this modern era how legal that is to then post that footage on social media or any media?, just asking.

What do you mean groutby,

Posted on 10-10-2017 08:33 | By R. Bell

where is the personal attack? As you so wisely point out "quick comments aren't necessarily useful for conversation"perhaps you should heed your own advice. Attacking an argument is a far more accurate overview. Robin Bell.

Once again...........

Posted on 09-10-2017 22:55 | By groutby

..the interest in the topic is lost, writers with an opinion will go elsewhere to comment. I value others rational comment, but sadly has gone down the path of individual personal attack....again.....

The problem

Posted on 09-10-2017 17:14 | By crazyhorse

I have is the way these people go about this, getting a group together walking into a business, shoving a camera in someone's face and trying to intimidate them, this is all fine with Robin!, and as far as his statement "rapid advance in race relations", is this new system of pushing maori language and culture down everyone's throat an example of that?, perhaps Robin could tell us what would happen if a group of non maori walked into Ngai Tahu's offices shoved a video camera in someones face and complained about the way they spoke English, what a sad "racist" old man you are Bell, if everyone is happy with compulsory maori language or the teaching of anything else lets have a referendum, but we all know how that would turn out.

The bank in question,

Posted on 09-10-2017 15:46 | By R. Bell

has a very strong Maori customer base. Unlike you crazy, I know, It's my bank too. If the bank chooses not to accept requests in Maori, so be it. Unlike you crazy, the bank has no objection. To liken such requests, and the teaching of rudimentary te reo to fascism is yet another example of your disconnect to N.Z. and our rapid advance in race relations. Kia Kaha old man, just give it away and retire in peace. Robin Bell.

Withdrawal requests in te reo

Posted on 09-10-2017 12:41 | By crazyhorse

The people who went into this bank and other businesses have an agenda and are "forcing " it on people, how much extra is this going to cost a business who want to do business without being called racist, the people who carry this out get up in your face and expect you to fold under the pressure, is this really necessary, are there other ways around this, is the idea here that business will have to hire a maori speaking person, each NZ business now to have a maori cultural delegate or manager?.

I don't

Posted on 09-10-2017 09:05 | By R. Bell

I simply believe that a closer understanding of cultural difference is critical to future peace between the founding partners of this nation. You cannot force anyone to learn, clearly you didn't, your choice. You can force people to comply, which is what most Maori have done. I don't compare anything in education, all subjects are important. Te Reo is important as a catalyst between Maori and non Maori. By the way the bank you refer to is now accepting withdrawal requests in te reo Maori, a bit smarter than you, I think. Robin Bell.

REALLY BELL?

Posted on 08-10-2017 17:12 | By crazyhorse

Comparing the compulsory learning of the maori language to maths and literacy really shows how conceited you and the people are that "push" this, I see the latest craze to promote the maori lanquage is to get a group of maori speakers to go into a bank or fast food outlet try and order in maori all the while filming the poor person serving them, they just get sadder every day!.

It' as far from fascism as you can get.

Posted on 08-10-2017 13:38 | By R. Bell

Fascism is about promoting one culture as superior to all else. Learning te reo and Maori culture simply reflects the dual nature of N.Zs. founding and the part Maori played in it. One class, two peoples. Robin Bell.

Using force, is an emotive term,

Posted on 08-10-2017 13:27 | By R. Bell

Tommy. Both you and crazyhorse miss the point completely. Prior to compulsory education backed by state funding, illiteracy was rampant. New Zealand is a special case in point. The teaching of te reo is more about cultural difference and the absolute need to learn about those differences in order to dispel the nonsense written about separatism and the like. The very reason why crazy claims ' special " status for Maori is that he has never learned to respect them and their culture. Now we are. Robin Bell.

Govt monopoly on educations system to blame

Posted on 08-10-2017 12:54 | By The Tomahawk Kid

This is only a problem because the government have the monopoly on the education system. Parents should have the choice of sending their children to a school that teaches things THEY believe are important with (not what the govt say they must) That includes who teaches them and where the teachers are taught. Alistair says: "Wanting to force people to learn any language apart from the spoken and written word that is in universal use or the classics smacks of fascism and should be frowned on by all." A more principled statement would be: Using FORCE in all its guises smacks of fascism and should be frowned upon - not just teaching languages.

Factually incorrect and emotive.

Posted on 08-10-2017 11:37 | By crazyhorse

Waxing is wrong again, no foreign language is compulsory at any level in New Zealand schools.It is "wrong" to "force" a culture and language on anyone in any country, as other countries try to step back from separatism and racism K1W1's are being brainwashed to embrace it, there are 2 classes of people in NZ now and one class is a lot more "special" than the other,

@ waxing........

Posted on 08-10-2017 09:14 | By groutby

....quick comments aren't necessarily useful for conversation, more info please....

Compulsory French OK then?

Posted on 07-10-2017 15:27 | By waxing

So compulsory French is OK Alistair but not te reo?

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