‘Separate groups, separate rights'

There is much speculation about the future status of our country's freshwater. There is also much to be concerned with on the proposed changes to the Resource Management Act.
This has been clarified by Winston Peter's state-of-the-nation speech last week.
Under the new bill, every council in NZ will be required by law to involve iwi authorities in participating in the creation of policy plans – which also includes water management plans.
Mr Peters confirmed that the tribes ultimately want ownership of all Crown-owned river and lake beds and the water column contained within. They will own all the freshwater in our country and they will sell it back to us for a profit – hence their demand for a fund of
$1 billion to include economic mechanisms! Maori have been working on this race-based legislation since 2007 and are proceeding cautiously so as not to awaken us from our slumber.
The most enlightening statement of all from Mr Peters is this comment:
'The proposed changes to the RMA are a signal flare to the entire country that this is taking us down the track of separatism. We are no longer one people. We are moving towards two separate groups with separate rights.
'The Treaty is being used to expand the separate rights of Maori.” I find this extremely sad!

R Bishop, Tauranga

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22 comments

fresh water disposition

Posted on 05-02-2016 20:08 | By tutae.kuri

We should thank R Bishop and others for bringing this to the forefront. It is ironic that this subject is being discussed in secret and has not yet received the public outcry it deserves.If the TPPA signing resulted in the demonstrations we saw last week, this fresh water piracy is capable of a much more serious backlash from the general population. I believe the Govt will have great difficulty at the next General Election when the details become public and if they continue with this line.The groups that I talk to are fed up to the back teeth with separatist ideas and undue influence over our Government by a minority of iwi interests. Nobody really objects to fair payment for past wrongs, however,unreasonable, increasing influence in modern NZ should not be tolerated by anyone.


tutae.kuri means dog-shit

Posted on 09-02-2016 11:50 | By Peter Dey

Using the name tutae.kuri is deliberately offensive to the Maori language, Maori culture and Maori people. We should be able to refer to tutae.kuri as dog-shit when we are writing in English. I hope the moderation team is not claiming that offensive language in Maori does not matter because Maori is not a serious language.


Consultation is not control

Posted on 09-02-2016 15:55 | By Peter Dey

Both Robin Bishop and Winston Peters confuse consultation, which is all that Maori get, with control, which is what the Government always has. The Government always has the final say in decision making. The Water Forum will never take that away, so Robin Bishop and Winston Peters should stop grandstanding about separatism. We have always had two separate cultures, Maori and Pakeha, and that is separatism, but it will never take control away from the Pakeha majority.


@ Peter Dey

Posted on 11-02-2016 09:55 | By Captain Sensible

"two separate cultures"....one gives laws, housing, health, education, electricity, transport, written language, farming, monetary system, internet etc, and the other gives.... what exactly? There is no way maori should get any more rights than any other kiwi. That is racist and undemocratic. Of course Peter dey wants the status quo because his snout is in the trough!


captain sensible both cultures contribute

Posted on 11-02-2016 11:01 | By Peter Dey

The idea that Maori culture divides New Zealand is a myth. Laws, housing, education, electricity, farming and most things are contributed jointly by Maori and Pakeha but Pakeha dominate the political system. The idea that Maori have more rights than others is ridiculous as long as Pakeha always have control of political decisions, and that is the reality at present. The claim by Winston Peters that we are heading for a divided society is just political nonsense designed to stir up argument and win votes from the ignorant. All Maori can ever get is consultation. The 15% Maori of the population can never pose a threat to Pakeha control. People like Winston Peters and Robin Bishop who say otherwise are just trying to deceive the ignorant for their own political purpose.


Captain Sensible snout in a trough is fantasy

Posted on 11-02-2016 15:10 | By Peter Dey

Captain Sensible is accusing people who support Maori progress as having their snout in a trough. This claim is based on no sound evidence at all. The Treaty settlement payments that Maori have received are one off payments paid to iwi with thousands of members. The earnings from Treaty settlements spread over all members of iwi are not great. Treaty settlements are not annual payments. Earnings from Treaty settlements have to go towards investment for the future, so claims that Maori are now enormously wealthy and living with snouts in a trough are just ignorant trouble making.


Captain Sensible make your claims of snout in a trough

Posted on 11-02-2016 15:26 | By Peter Dey

Captain Sensible you have previously made claims of Maori ripping off the taxpayer. Select your 5 worst rip off cases and give us the details.


@P dey

Posted on 11-02-2016 16:40 | By tutae.kuri

I told you once before Peter Dey, that I would respect your views and expected the same from you! As such. I should not have to justify my nickname which was bestowed by an ignorant uncle when I was very young. Furthermore, we swam and played in The Tutaekuri River, near Hastings for years.Far from being an insulting word, it is in everyday use, particularly in Hawke Bay. I suggest, therefore, that it is more likely that my comment on R Bishop's letter that got under that skin of yours a wee bit ? You can argue all you like but control of the water will be tantamount to owning it.When unelected Iwi members have the ability, by sitting on Regional and local Council Boards, to direct the disposition of water and other resources, we will be in trouble. No one will tolerate a situation like that.


@ Peter Dey

Posted on 12-02-2016 07:26 | By Captain Sensible

EVERY race based handout or privilege is a ripoff to the taxpayers. I have been waiting for many years for your self or R Bell to name one race based privilege for non-maori that is not available to maori, but I'm still waiting. Par tmaori get an estimated 300 race based privileges that are not available to non-maori. BTW, the majority of people may be non-maori but we have different backgrounds. Majority rules is democracy, but in NZ the minority part-maori rules as with the maori party (1.5% votes) dictating to the Nats.


tutaekuri nickname ok in this column not ok

Posted on 12-02-2016 09:24 | By Peter Dey

The use of the nickname tutaekuri among mates is obviously ok. The river has the same name. However nobody with any common sense would use that nickname in mixed company including women and people who know the Maori language. That is what we have here, and it is offensive. Tutaekuri should choose another pen name for this column. We are more than just a bunch of his mates.


Captain sensible give the worst ripoffs

Posted on 15-02-2016 10:40 | By Peter Dey

Captain sensible a list of 300 so called ripoffs is nonsense if you cannot justify them. Give us a list of the 5 worst so called ripoffs. The Maori Party does not rule. When you write that you make it clear that you are writing propaganda not rational sense. The fact that the Maori Party have made political gains does not mean that they have control of anything. We are still a Pakeha dominated society. Claiming otherwise is irrational nonsense unsupported by any credible evidence.


Captain Sensible, 140 years of injustice to redress

Posted on 15-02-2016 11:16 | By Peter Dey

Captain Sensible the race based measures that you object to are an effort to redress the 140 years of injustice to Maori, that were not seriously addressed until 1985. Maori make up 15% of the population but have only 7% of national wealth and 7% of national income. Most informed people know that this situation is a result of past injustice by Governments towards Maori. Now we are trying to make redress. The cost is affordable and fair. It involves special measures for Maori. People who object are either ignorant or they believe that Pakeha culture is superior and that we should be a Pakeha dominated society.


The majority of non-Maori are oblivious to Maori concerns

Posted on 15-02-2016 11:48 | By Peter Dey

The majority of non-Maori are totally not affected by measures to improve the situation of Maori. They have no desire to even discuss the issue. It is only an extreme minority like R.Bishop and Captain Sensible who want to complain, not because measures to help Maori are too costly or unfair but for other reasons that they keep to themselves.


@ Peter Dey

Posted on 15-02-2016 12:33 | By Captain Sensible

There you go again....I give you a race based privilege only available to maori and what do you do? Try to justify it!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Captain Sensible, privilege is a misleading word

Posted on 15-02-2016 13:16 | By Peter Dey

The fact that Maori have a separate electoral roll can be called a privilege, but that is misleading when they get no special benefit from the separate roll. What they get is representation that they might not have got without the separate roll. A privilege is normally thought of as something that provides an extra benefit, not something that prevents unfairness. So the 300 race based privileges that Captain Sensible talks about should not include measures that prevent unfairness. Captain Sensible should tell us 5 race based privileges that are major rip-offs by Maori of non-Maori. One of the biggest privileges that non-Maori get over Maori is that the education system is Pakeha dominated so that the majority of Maori students get taught by Pakeha teachers who quite often do not get the best out of Maori students.


Captain Sensible, the Maori Party does not dictate

Posted on 15-02-2016 14:02 | By Peter Dey

Captain Sensible I did not justify that the Maori Party dictates to the National Party. I said that the Maori Party does not dictate to the National Party. That is absolutely clear to everybody except the extremely ignorant or those with deluded political beliefs.


@ Peter Dey

Posted on 15-02-2016 15:27 | By Captain Sensible

Any privilege granted on the basis of race does two things; it gives one race an unfair advantage over another and secondly it discriminates against all the other races that do not get the privilege. There are an estimated 300+ race based privileges ( eg maori only scholarships, maori only hospital wards, maori only education advantages) that are discriminating against all non part-maori. Now watch as Peter Dey tries to justify these racist privileges!!


Captain Sensible non-Maori already have an advantage

Posted on 15-02-2016 15:52 | By Peter Dey

Because we live in a Pakeha dominated society Pakeha have the privilege of generally receiving more sympathetic treatment from the education, health, and justice systems. Maori succeed worse than Pakeha in education, health, and justice. When Captain Sensible objects to measures to improve the situation for Maori as special privileges, and he himself has no realistic suggestions for improvement, it means that he is quite happy to do nothing at all. He does not deny that Maori have suffered injustice at the hands of the Government but objects to measures taken to make redress. That makes him a mindless prisoner of his own ideology.


Rip offs?

Posted on 15-02-2016 15:53 | By tutae.kuri

here are one or two from memory p. Dey. Ngai Tahu 5th Settlement. Joe Williams of Waitangi Tribunal-"the Tribunal must assess the past by the standards of today" Hugh Kawharu (1989) , back translates the Maori text of ToW to something it did not mean in 1840.The subject of the thread, however, is the disposition of the water and I go back to suggesting that the general public will not put up with ownership by minority through control of the resource. Control has to lie with parliament or we are all in trouble. Wars are likely to be fought over water resources this century, hopefully not in New Zealand. It is more than high time we realised and acted like one people with equal rights under the Law.


Captain Sensible the Americans do positive discrimination

Posted on 15-02-2016 16:03 | By Peter Dey

Captain Sensible the examples you quote of special measures for Maori in health and education are quite conventional. The Americans have positive discrimination to try and improve the achievement of African Americans. They do not describe it as special privileges. Not all Americans agree with it, and their problem is not yet solved, but you should not disparage positive discrimination when you have no better solution to offer. Maori only scholarships and hospital are positive discrimination that take nothing from Pakeha. They are only called privileges by people like Captain Sensible who want to mislead us.


Kuri, the Water Forum can only achieve consultation

Posted on 15-02-2016 16:15 | By Peter Dey

Kuri you are presenting biased misinformation about the Ngai Tahu settlement, the Waitangi Tribunal, and Hugh Kawharu. The people who criticise Hugh Kawharu's translation of the Treaty of Waitangi do not speak Maori. They make fools of themselves. No fluent speaker of Maori has said that there is anything wrong with Hugh Kawharu's translation. The Water Forum of Maori leaders will only ever get consultation. The Government will always have the final say over water. People who are trying to frighten us that Maori are somehow going to dictate to the Government are clearly deluded. The have been saying this for the past ten years. Nothing has happened. They are spouting a political fantasy.


@ Peter Dey

Posted on 15-02-2016 18:54 | By Captain Sensible

"positive discrimination" for one group by definition equals negative discrimination for another. The only fair way is zero discrimination which makes everyone equal. Your nose must be buried very deep in the trough to be sooooooo anti-equality.


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