Complaints have been received by the Human Rights Commission in the wake of police not ticketing unlicensed Maori drivers in South Auckland.
This week TVNZ revealed unlicensed Maori drivers caught behind the wheel in South Auckland are getting the chance to avoid a $400 fine – a move in place since last year.
Tauranga Police during a routine checkpoint. Photo: Tracy Hardy
Documents leaked to the media organisation outline that all Maori drivers caught without a licence or in breach of their conditions are to be referred for training and not given a ticket.
"We then refer them to the panel and the panel looks at a whole range of issues that's caused that person to drive without a licence or why that person hasn't had a licence, and then provides some support," Superintendent Wally Haumaha of Police National Headquarters, told TVNZ.
If after that Iwi and community support the driver has not complied within two months, a $400 ticket is then issued.
It's a small part of what is a nationwide wide programme, Turning of the Tide, aimed at reducing Maori offending.
Police say they have the discretion to do the same for non-Maori drivers, but that's not spelt in the document.
SunLive sought comment from the Human Rights Commission on the issue but were told by a spokesperson it is unable to comment fully.
'The commission has received complaints about this matter and is unable to comment specifically while it is being dealt with by out complaints resolution team due to statutory confidentiality requirements,” says a commission spokesperson.
New Zealand Police Commissioner Mike Bush says police policy allowed officers to use their discretion to give all drivers time to fix a problem rather than paying a fine or being prosecuted.
The policy had been in place for 10 years.
"All New Zealanders may be offered traffic compliance if they meet the criteria, regardless of their ethnicity," says Mike.
The "guidelines" document advising Counties Manukau police on how to deal with any Maori caught driving without a license "could have been worded better," says Mike.
"All New Zealanders may be offered traffic compliance if they meet the criteria, regardless of their ethnicity," he says.
The decision was at the discretion of individual police officers.
'Nevertheless its intent was good, given the reality is that Maori are significantly over-represented in deaths and injuries associated with road trauma.
'As police we are committed to a constructive, problem solving approach in tackling this, just as we are with the over-representation of Maori throughout the justice system.
'This means taking innovative approaches and working in partnership with Iwi to ensure that we are doing all we can to keep Maori safe, as we do for everyone in our communities.”
What do you think? Do you support police's stance?
99 comments
Its racism
Posted on 18-06-2015 15:29 | By Tga local
Does this mean the rest of the "justice" system is also offering special deals only available to maori? This will lead to a sense of entitlement, and if not stopped, will become more prevalent and divisive to all New Zealanders. One law for all, or no law for any.
The Road to Hell...
Posted on 18-06-2015 15:54 | By morepork
... is paved with good intentions. The problem here is in how they went about it. A document directing the actions of South Auckland Police, full of spelling mistakes, and actually specifying "Maori" drivers, is then publicly denied as being "racist" by the media spokesperson for the Police. If you specify a specific Ethnicity as being the only ones affected, how can it be anything other than racist? What reaction did they expect to get? And yet, most fair-minded people would approve of the move to try and get better driving on our roads, and, if a certain group is over-represented, then, by all means, let's help them. They should have been open about the statistics and what they proposed to do about it, so that, in context, it could be seen NOT to be racist. And people commanding Police should be at least able to spell...
BLATANT RACISM
Posted on 18-06-2015 15:59 | By penguin
So Maori get stopped and can select from a range of factors as to why they did not have a licence. quote :(
This is obviously
Posted on 18-06-2015 16:08 | By earlybird
a road safety initiative. We can't drive 4kph over the limit without getting a fine but driving without a licence is ok. Really - whose dumb idea was this. The way to stop people offending is to ensure that they obey the law. All this will do is to encourage them to take a chance because they know that nothing will happen if they get caught. So, if we pretend it didn't happen, the offending rate drops & the stats look good. Talk about turning a blind eye.
Animal Farm Stuff
Posted on 18-06-2015 16:40 | By The author of this comment has been removed.
In George Orwell's Animal Farm was a quote "We are all equal, but some are more equal than others". This is a classic example.
What does it feel
Posted on 18-06-2015 16:49 | By Tassie
like to be classed as a special need race............treated like a child.....how humiliating to have it aired in public.
R. Bell and P Dey...where are you?
Posted on 18-06-2015 17:30 | By Captain Sensible
What next to keep the maori crime figures down....one aggravated assault free of any convictions? I look forward to hearing what Robin Bell and Peter Dey think on this one ( I can guess).
Fair enough I Say
Posted on 18-06-2015 17:56 | By StevieB
I think maori should be similarly let off all theft, burglary, drug dealing, car conversion etc 'cos they have suffered for a very long time.It must be awful for them being virtually the only ones in jail, and they must suffer severe emotional harm for having been caught by the police time & time again. Don't ticket the criminals who choose to break the law. Applaud them and hug them to try & give them a better understanding of how to behave in a community. But please, no more ticketing of unlicensed maori drivers in unregistered, unwarranted or even stolen vehicles. They have truely suffered enough !!
I'm sure Dame Susan will sort it???
Posted on 18-06-2015 18:14 | By Annalist
This is a job for the Race Relations Commissioner. Let's see what her response is over this clear police instruction. Make you wonder what else the police have been doing along similar lines. Hopefully a complaint will be made and it will be interesting to see Dame Susan's response, but I'm not holding my breath.
Overit
Posted on 18-06-2015 18:18 | By overit
Superintendent Haumaha is well named - WALLY.This would have to be the most hairbrained decision I have ever heard of.
Goodness Me Disgusting
Posted on 18-06-2015 18:48 | By Merlin
Will they get a ticket if their car is unregistered and unwarranted or will they get support for this as well and no ticket.Where does it stop.
The road toll must come down, yeah right?
Posted on 18-06-2015 18:58 | By BullShtAlert
Next time you get a fine for speeding along with that holier than thou letter about the road toll must come down, just keep in mind the possible racist policy of the nz police. Imagine if they decided that rather than give tickets to rich white males in their ferraris they would just refer them to pc driver training or "speedway based justice". The whole thing is a sad joke. It's like being caught red-handed. But the question remains, what will the National Government do about it? Nothing?
well well
Posted on 18-06-2015 19:18 | By dumbkof2
This is not racist because it only affects maori. If it only affected whites it would definately be racist
Disgusting!
Posted on 18-06-2015 20:30 | By monty1212
This must be the only Country in the world where there are two different laws for dealing with its inhabitants who commit the same offence. A case for Race Relations to sort I think?
So, let's just imagine..
Posted on 18-06-2015 20:31 | By groutby
if these illegal drivers have no problem with driving without a licence knowing they will probably get away without paying a fine, do you really think the vehicle itself is likely to be not only "legally" on the road but indeed roadworthy?..I very much doubt it.! This is absolute abuse of authority by the Police (on the understanding that there is some"discretion")..but just for one race?..My low esteem for Police has met another all time low after hearing this, and I admit I am really sad to admit it. As for the comment that the offender is unlikely to pay the fine..well the answer surely is simply you do not drive, the law is exactly that..AND FOR ALL!. All the weasel words in the land will not excuse this behaviour by our "trusted" enforcement agency.
So
Posted on 18-06-2015 21:13 | By Capt_Kaveman
Whats worse driving with no licence or speeding by 5kph?
SIMPLE REALLY
Posted on 18-06-2015 21:52 | By The Caveman
Unlicensed driver also probably equals an un-registered car with NO WOF. If so, impound car and CRUSH it
Insurance
Posted on 18-06-2015 22:12 | By R1Squid
Well these nice people that drive without licenses in cars that are likely have doubtful ownership history or legally be on the road certainly won't even have at minimum 3rd party insurance. The policy (or ever what the Police want to call it) is OBSCENE.
What?
Posted on 19-06-2015 05:22 | By Kenworthlogger
So will the police let me off if I'm 1 log over my 48 ton GVM limit? Will i get disgretion? Not on your life! Why? Because i can pay and thats all their is too it. This artical is blatent raceism. If the policy was for whites only boy would there be an outrage.
Police responsible for deaths on the road
Posted on 19-06-2015 09:12 | By SLoarach
Quote as above:
RACISM IN NZ POLICE
Posted on 19-06-2015 09:19 | By Margot Rose
This turning-the-tide guideline introduced by the people who are sworn to serve and protect the citizens of this country is an appalling demonstration of the corrupt systems that are being offered to the early settlers if this country. I would be interested how many "European natives" of this country have been offered compliance and why should it be a discretionary call from Police Officers?? Thank God our Poluce Force don't carry guns. They would probably offer compliance for that too. Disgusted and nothing but racism of the highest degree. Dame Susan where are you???
IF we now know about this
Posted on 19-06-2015 09:33 | By How about this view!
How many other race based directives do we not know about? I feel for all the great Maori people that I spend time with, they are all truly wonderful people, but I discriminate on whom I spend time with! The national headache is just coming around the corner, as we are allowing our youth (Sorry I mean TEACHING) to believe that the world owes they a living. Put your hand out and someone will give you something for nothing, break the law until you get caught and then laugh at the judge because you won't be going to jail. We once had another wonderful tool in the arsenal and that was bringing shame on the family, but that is WRONG apparently. Maybe the time has come to turn the wheel full circle and build more prisons, erect the stocks and stop the stupid name suppression laws for ALL inhabitants.
Tickets in South Auckland
Posted on 19-06-2015 10:16 | By YOGI BEAR
They don't pay them anyway so why waste taxpayers money issuing one, just prosecute for no license and seize the car and crush it, one less wreck on the roads.
WHAT NEXT
Posted on 19-06-2015 10:24 | By Surfwatch
They think Maori are over represented in the prison population. The only way they think will stop that is to let them off their crimes. That way they will be underrepresented. Its no use doing something like that after the crime has been committed, they should be looking at it before the crime is committed.
Stupid
Posted on 19-06-2015 10:27 | By NZgirl
Wasn't it also mentioned a couple of weeks back that young Maori offenders would not have to go to court if they break the law. Instead they will have to go to a Maori court on a Marae and stand in front of their Whanau and explain themselves. Ridiculous, and people wonder why this country is so divided. We should all be Kiwi. Not Kiwi and Iwi.
One Law For All
Posted on 19-06-2015 10:39 | By Road Ranger
A great idea to offer compliance to drivers who have done their licence theory and maybe on their "L" plates or restricted licence BUT most of these "non licenced" drivers have NOT done the study or training required for driver licensing - which is a worry!! I think the Police need to reassess their procedure's and be more visible on the roads (like the old days of Traffic Cops) and review their own driving standards (driving thru "STOP" signs, not indicating off roundabouts, talking on cell phones, etc). We have some excellent drivers and police in NZ but a small majority need to take a serious look at themselves and abide by the law - and inturn it needs to be inforced as per the legislation.
DUH!
Posted on 19-06-2015 11:16 | By Captain Sensible
If maori are 'over represented' in crime, and non-maori are over repesented in not filling our jails, then DUH !!! Do we need a highly paid tax payer funded 'bro-rocracy' to figure it out?! Mr Bell and Mr Dey are conspicuous by their absence here!
Captain Sensible misinformed again
Posted on 19-06-2015 11:37 | By Peter Dey
Captain Sensible along with almost every other comment does not seem to have read the article. The article says that police have the discretion to refer any driving offender to training before issuing an offence notice. It seems probable that police have not been doing that for Maori offenders. To get around racist police failing to give Maori offenders the opportunity for training, police have now been told that all Maori will now get that opportunity, and that all Pakeha already get that opportunity. Racist police officers now have to do what they should have been doing in the first place. We know that we are still dealing with racist police officers. The present decision is just a practical way of reducing racist police actions.
Read it again Peter
Posted on 19-06-2015 13:36 | By YOGI BEAR
The rules are yet again "different" there is only one reason for this and it has nothing to do with "knowing the rules", can you guess the real underlying reason if you were objective realistic and if it ere possible "honest" here.
Captain Sensible
Posted on 19-06-2015 13:41 | By YOGI BEAR
They are indeed are conspicuous by their absence here, the reasons have become rather obvious. Despite the best endeavours (see Pete's brief and lame recital below) there is no way to provide a sound, fair, non-separatist answer or explanation to the new Police policy here. Sadly the NZ Police have been put in a very difficult position of being dragged into the racially based arena and this can not end well I believe. The policy has to be reversed and equality has to be restored. The likes of Pete and Robin can not deny the real treaty terms where Maori are subject to the queen's law just as all settlers were and the same remains so to this day.
Another solution
Posted on 19-06-2015 13:43 | By Kaimai
If I feel like a Maori, can I be Maori? Half-maori even? Maybe just a little bit Maori?
Two rules?
Posted on 19-06-2015 13:50 | By YOGI BEAR
I is clear from the above that a clear difference exists, the policy is intended for the benefit of one group for the same offence, that makes it clear and obvious as being racially based.
YOGI BEAR, removing bias is justified special treatment
Posted on 19-06-2015 14:22 | By Peter Dey
YOGI BEAR, at present racist police officers can be harder on Maori than on Pakeha. They have discretion when they issue offence notices. Police statistics probably show that the treatment of vehicle offenders is biased against Maori. Telling police that they must show discretion to all Maori offenders simply removes bias. That is quite justified special treatment.
Utter Rubbish
Posted on 19-06-2015 14:58 | By Jitter
What a load of crap Peter Dey talks. I know that this policy has been in existence for at least 7 years so is not new. Occaisionally (note -occaisionally)a "white" driver has been let off but in the main they have been hit with a fine whereas "Maori", well who knows. My real concern is, what is the situation if one of these unlicensed "Maori" drivers in an unlicenced and unwarranted vehicle causes an accident and kills someone ? Do they again get "special priveleges" and let off any charges ? Because this is what this policy of letting unlicensed drivers off could lead to. I say if they are caught driving without a licence then the car should be crushed and dumped.They know the law so lets get tough for a change.
Once again Yogi bear
Posted on 19-06-2015 15:15 | By robin bell
and cap'n whatsit presume the upper ground.Yet again they will be shown to be wrong. The policy of the Police is a very good one.Young Maori offenders are unlikely to be given any privilege not available to non Maori.Targeting the predominance of young Maori offenders in S. Auckland is prudent and pro active and helps to insure safer roads for ALL. In the process it educates and motivates. Sadly it also winds up the usual racist sentiments expressed below. Robin Bell.
Extrapolation by Jitter
Posted on 19-06-2015 15:33 | By robin bell
In his usual exaggerations jitter excels . He has no idea how many non Maori have been the beneficiaries of Police discretion,NONE.He has no basis for his claim that minor offences lead to death on the roads.None.It is yet another example of jitters fabrications,aimed at Maori. Robin Bell.
Jitter, it is not utter rubbish to oppose bias
Posted on 19-06-2015 15:36 | By Peter Dey
Jitter, we have had a policy of allowing police to exercise discretion for a first vehicle offence. It seems that it has been exercised with bias against Maori. Police are now being told to grant discretion to all Maori offenders, so that there is no anti-Maori bias by police. That is not utter rubbish. That is just good progress in New Zealand's journey to greater racial harmony. Jitter's bitter resistance to the tide of racial goodwill in New Zealand is sad.
@ Dey & Bell
Posted on 19-06-2015 16:03 | By Captain Sensible
They showed the police document on TV and it clearly stated only maori were to be let off. After being exposed, they went into damage control with a lie saying every race was to be let off. If every race was to be let off, then WHY did it clearly state maori only? NZ Poice and govt caught red handed telling the public lies.
what utter crap
Posted on 19-06-2015 16:50 | By Kenworthlogger
Can Peter and Robin actually provide some evidence please. WHere is the proof? Both of you do not know what raceism is.
Racism
Posted on 19-06-2015 17:49 | By Feruno
We All came on boats or planes . We are ALL New Zealanders . Police officers job is to uphold the law , not to discriminate against one sector of the population and let others off for the same crime . Enough . I am going to find out about changing my ethnicity to Maori on Monday morning .
Why not just
Posted on 19-06-2015 19:07 | By Towball
Give them a horse, a blanket , bottle of booze free KFC delivery and herd them all into Bastion Point . Opp's already done that call it south Auckland .They would be stoked and it solves so many issues such as :- No licence reqd, no petrol drive offs ,no job, no ques at WINZ ,free fishing, no quota's,no more housing shortages and for entertainment just beat up the family . But Wait there's more !. NO WHITE MANS LAW !. Bro that means no fines so more money for the pokies and beer . Oh Aw Aw is this RACIST ?. Nah Bro's thats just life as we know it . We got it sweet churrrrrr.................
Kenworthlogger, the evidence is in the article
Posted on 20-06-2015 00:09 | By Peter Dey
The article makes it quite clear that police are able to exercise discretion and refer an offender for training rather than issue an offence notice, and this applies to all races. Quite clearly, although there is no evidence for this, police have not been exercising that discretion for Maori offenders, as much as for Pakeha offenders. Now they have been told to exercise discretion for all Maori offenders. That removes bias against Maori. Why are all these writers getting bitter and twisted about something that does not take anything away from Pakeha at all. It seems that they spend their lives looking for something to criticise Maori for. Fortunately most of the population realise that racial harmony in New Zealand is improving because we are trying to remove anti-Maori bias. People who do not understand the difference between special privileges and removing bias should talk to people who do.
Don't be
Posted on 20-06-2015 09:40 | By robin bell
the usual "modus operandi" for these comment freaks is to ignore the facts and simply react to the trigger word "MAORI".There is no "getting off" for Maori,there is a positive outcome for both offender, the taxpayer and even those who can't see it.A good exercise for most below would be to actually read the article and perhaps moreporks comment, whilst I don't agree with his claim of "racism" the rest of his comment makes sense. Robin Bell.
@ robin bell
Posted on 20-06-2015 10:19 | By Captain Sensible
Robin, it clearly stated only maori were to be let off. Why deny it? We all saw it in black and white on the documents shown on the tv news. Your lack of credibility has dropped further by trying to muddy the water.
Captain,
Posted on 20-06-2015 12:07 | By robin bell
er! er! er! read the article absorb it, put your prejudice to one side for a minute (if that's possible). No one is being LET OFF as you mischievously put it. Diversion has been used by the Police for years, for all,but apparently unfairly. Whats new? Don't worry about my credibility cap'n, I have a long way to go to sink to your depth. Robin Bell.
Numbers
Posted on 20-06-2015 13:56 | By Jitter
Perhaps Robin Bell could provide me with the numbers of both "Maori" and other cultures who have been let off "no licence" traffic offences since police were instructed to use discretion some years ago. I have been unable to find them anywhere and I doubt very much if the NZ Police would be prepared to release them.
Total over-reaction, these are only license offences
Posted on 20-06-2015 13:56 | By Peter Dey
All these people getting their knickers in a twist. Amazing! And all just first time license offences, not car registrations or warrants of fitness. What a fuss about nothing, and the discretion that police have is available to all races. There are not two laws being applied here. It is not racist because racism is the belief that one race is superior to another. This decision is simply dealing in a practical way with the anti-Maori decisions of some police. Police have been told that they can no longer be biased in their treatment of Maori first time license offenders. It is not special treatment for Maori. It is removal of mistreatment for Maori.
Maori Wardens
Posted on 20-06-2015 13:59 | By Jitter
Does anyone have any information re a request from Maori to the Waitangi Tribunal for Maori Wardens to be given the same powers and authority as the NZ Police !!!
deny deny deny
Posted on 20-06-2015 14:19 | By Captain Sensible
Robin, your MO of deny, deny, deny, even when presented with the evidence does your lack of credibility no favours.
Peter and Robin
Posted on 21-06-2015 08:30 | By Kenworthlogger
You are making up the usual rubbish again. No where in the artical has it been said that Maori were being treated with unfair bias from raceist police. Please quote me where it says that. Are you saying Maori police officers are being racist?
Wisechief
Posted on 21-06-2015 09:09 | By Wise Chief
Its simply the Royal British Armed Militias aka NZ Police States way of forcing Maori Peoples via the CIVIL licensing process into Commercial Contract --UCC-Universal/Uniform Commercial Code aka Admiralty Law with them as CITIZENS and not as they REALLY are as guaranteed under various United Nations Enactments 1865 Declaration of Independence and 1840 Treaty of Waitangi as..Freeman on the Land..which is what The Maori Peoples are within THEIR OWN COUNTRY whereupon immigrants whether from Britain and elsewhere are NOT..Tangata Whenua...Freeman on THEIR land. This RORT by Brit/NZ Police State was designed to extort money from Maoris to keep them poor as per the 180 year old instruction to the from London which NOW being carried out like the ''Old Days'' pre Maori Wars era at the point of a gun or threat of incarceration. Seems little has change and won't anytime soon. Smell ARMED Civil Conflict made by Whites.
Rubbish? Kenny.
Posted on 21-06-2015 09:59 | By robin bell
The N.Z.Police force is made up of many different ethnic origins,reflecting the make up of society. Given the undeniable ( even for you)anti Maori feelings expressed in so called social media,for those feelings NOT to be present among the Police would be like claiming Pigs can fly. Have you ever seen a flying pig Kenny? of course you haven't. Robin Bell.
@ wisechief
Posted on 21-06-2015 11:41 | By Captain Sensible
Your arguement is flawed because there are ZERO full blooded maori left in NZ. BTW, you come across as someone who ( for some reason ) thinks you are vastly superior to non-part maori. Maybe you should read some real history to see what life was like pre treaty.
Kenworthlogger, I have no figures. You have no figures
Posted on 21-06-2015 12:10 | By Peter Dey
Kenworthlogger is quite right. I have no figures to show that police treatment of Maori was biased. Kenworthlogger has no figures to show that police treatment of Maori was not biased. The obvious reason for police to be told to refer all first time Maori license offenders for training and not issue offence notices is because police were referring very few Maori for training and not an offence. We know that racism exists within the police force because of occasions like the Tuhoe raid at Ruatoki in 2007 when many totally innocent Maori, including children, were detained by police for many hours in extreme discomfort without being charged with any offence. Maori were clearly treated as inferior.
Poor Maori
Posted on 21-06-2015 13:48 | By Feruno
What the police are saying is Maori are too stupid/lazy to get a licence or get a WOF and Rego for the car they "have".Before I become a Maori , I hope all these multi Billionaire Iwi will get off their fat wallets and DO something for their people who are so disadvantaged and poor even after all these $Billions have been paid to them by the battling "rest of the population"taxpayers .Drop this racist law dodge , and while you are at it , lets make ALL New Zealanders EQUAL and ONE so we can STOP this growing racial SEGREGATION and hatred . I believe its time for Maori to stand up and become HONORABLE people and stop living like parasite second grade people . You can do it...
Feruno, you have been misinformed
Posted on 21-06-2015 15:00 | By Peter Dey
All that Maori now get is retraining for first time license offences, the same as everybody has been entitled to all along for at least 7 years. Treaty settlements give iwi not billions of dollars to spend but millions of dollars as assets. A million dollar asset like a house is not a million dollars to spend. Only the income from assets can be spent, and iwi do spend their income on their people. We have separate races in New Zealand. We do not have segregation. That would be people living separately from each other. The law for traffic offences is the same for all, but police have discretion in how they apply it. Maori are not saying that they hate Pakeha, and they are claiming less than what has been taken illegally from them by past Governments. They have accepted unfair treatment gracefully. They are definitely not parasites.
Either everyone or no-one
Posted on 21-06-2015 15:03 | By Annalist
If driving unlicenced is an offence and it is then anyone stopped without one should be fined regardless whether they are black, white, brown or like most of us various shades. End of story. It seems the police were caught out here and it's interesting to see the excuses come out. Read Rogers Rabbits editorial in the Sun. It's spot on.
Annalist, it was not everyone, now it is
Posted on 21-06-2015 15:37 | By Peter Dey
Annalist seems to assume that nobody previously got diversion for license offences, and that now only Maori will get it. The article makes it clear that diversion has always been available to all first time offenders, and that is still the case. The difference now is that police officers are no longer able to use their discretion and refuse diversion for Maori offenders. That is not special treatment for Maori. It is removing the opportunity for police to be biased against Maori.
@ Peter Dey
Posted on 21-06-2015 17:09 | By Captain Sensible
You will find that maori had very little taken off them illegally....if you break the rules that were signed then you are fined...just as today. You should try reading some real history instead of that flowery stuff written by maori to aid the grievance industry.
Captain Sensible
Posted on 21-06-2015 23:57 | By YOGI BEAR
The rewritten history you are referring to has only one purpose, that is to aid and abet the WTF Waitangi Tribunal claims made to date and more to come. It is also to indoctrinate the part Maori that remain to have attitude. regrettably none of this stuff has anything to do with what really happened in and around 1840. This especially applies the word mean change that has occurred since 1975, that has lead to this day where the real deal is going missing, hidden behind special archeological dealings and closed off areas of non part Maori important sites that can show and do only show otherwise. Good luck getting Robin to read any of that and comprehending it.
Either everyone or no-one
Posted on 21-06-2015 23:58 | By YOGI BEAR
One rule for all, or no rule. In fact in 1840 that is exactly what the English and part Maori agreed to do, all under the queens law. Shame that this signed agreement has been twisted a bit to suit a bunch of trumped by claims lately.
@ Peter Dey
Posted on 22-06-2015 07:51 | By YOGI BEAR
Actually the irony is that most taken from part Maori was by other part Maori, yet the treaty claims for that and a lot more creative ... have been lodged against the NZ Government rather than other IWI. How strange it is.
WE are getting somewhere
Posted on 22-06-2015 07:55 | By Kenworthlogger
well Robin has failed to come up with any proof which we knew he would. He would rather talk about flying pigs. At least Peter has the honesty and integrity to say yes there is no proof Maori were being treated with unfair bias. THis is easily settled. No one is to be sent for retraining. Everyone should be ticketed. Watching Police 10/7 and Roadcops i see lots of young Maori be let of with compliance to get vehicles rego and warrented so clearly no raceism there.
Diversions
Posted on 22-06-2015 09:18 | By robin bell
The 1law4all supporters continue to suffer their delusions. How is it possible to have 1law4all when we live in a world of inequality? HOW is it possible for children growing up in poverty,parented by disfunctional adults, to deal with the cognitive challenges of daily life in a rapidly changing world? How is it possible to pay a $400 fine when $400 is more than the family earn in a week? They CAN'T,so they simply commit more crime to compensate for the pain and suffering.1LAW4ALL HAS NEVER WORKED, IS NOT WORKING AND CAN NEVER WORK, just as equality has never existed,but we can make a difference,as the Police in S.Auckland are trying to do. Robin Bell.
Captain Sensible, the Government disagrees with you
Posted on 22-06-2015 09:40 | By Peter Dey
Captain Sensible says that Maori had very little taken off them illegally. Governments have now paid Treaty settlements to Maori of over $1 billion for land taken from Maori by Governments in the past mostly illegally or fraudulently. The only reason that Governments have paid out is because the land was taken illegally or fraudulently.
Get it right Kenny,
Posted on 22-06-2015 10:47 | By robin bell
flying pigs and spinning Bears. Still no positive input from you.Ah!!! well. Robin Bell.
@ Peter Dey
Posted on 22-06-2015 11:02 | By Captain Sensible
The government you are referring to is too afraid to even ask for proof of these outrageous claims because the part maori with their never ending claims would scream "racist". It is all agreed by the biased Waitangi tribunal who refuse evidence from non-maori which would jeopardise their claim. Then the Waitangi Tribunal go through their process of agreeing to anything maori and then shove it under the noses of a spineless minister ( who used to work for them and BTW has failed 4 times to get elected properly and sneaks in as a list mp) and then he adds a few million for good measure. It is the most undemocratic process anyone could make up.
Captain Sensible, every Government has disagreed with you
Posted on 22-06-2015 12:00 | By Peter Dey
Captain Sensible, every Government for the past 25 years, not just the present Government has been making Treaty settlements, because they believed that Maori were treated wrongfully. Blaming the Waitangi Tribunal is just being ignorant. The Waitangi Tribunal can only make recommendations. The Government makes Treaty settlement decisions. When you accuse elected governments, Labour and National, of making undemocratic Treaty claim decisions over the past 25 years, you are suffering from irrational delusion.
The proof is in the puddin' Kenny.
Posted on 22-06-2015 12:02 | By robin bell
let's get it straight,are you accusing the Counties/ Manakau Police, The Commissioner of Police and the Police Maori Officer of lying about this problem? If so kenny you should say so.Let's see how honest you are.If not you should do as I do, Trust the Police at least at senior level. Robin Bell.
@ Peter Dey
Posted on 22-06-2015 15:17 | By Captain Sensible
As I have already explained, the only evidence the govt looks at is that prepared by the corrupt and biased Waitangi Tribunal. Contrary evidence to their claims is not allowed! For example the Waipoua stone fence has a 75 year research embargo on it until 2063 to stop anyone discovering maori were not here first. Now why would that be and why would anybody want to hide the truth? The spineless governmants just go along with the Waitangi tribunal because they are terrified of being called racist ( yes, even truthseeking is called racist in NZ).
peter dey
Posted on 22-06-2015 16:23 | By Feruno
Then why are 3 Iwi in NZ each worth $Billions , while Maori children are sent to school without food . Stop making excuses for a bad system . So what you are saying is that anyone can walk onto a Marai even if they are not Maori . Wake up and smell the roses mate . Open your eyes when you mingle with the normal people in normal life in NZ
Captain Sensible, Governments answer to the voters
Posted on 22-06-2015 16:33 | By Peter Dey
Captain Sensible, governments now do not want to be racist because the majority of voters are not racist. Governments have made Treaty settlements for 25 years to compensate for injustice to Maori, and to atone for racism in the past. There is no credible evidence that the Waitangi Tribunal is corrupt. The actions of police leaders in making sure that Maori first time vehicle offenders get training and not an offence notice is simply action to make sure that individual police officers are not racist when they deal with offenders. The amazing part of this issue is that people are objecting to a police decision that is designed to reduce racist police action, and improve racial goodwill. The police are not being anti-Pakeha and racist. They are trying to reduce opportunities for anti-Maori police racism. Police leaders make it clear that treatment of Pakeha offenders does not change.
Robin
Posted on 22-06-2015 17:32 | By Kenworthlogger
Still waiting from you for the evidence from the article. Peter has admitted there is none. Can you robin?
Numbers
Posted on 23-06-2015 15:48 | By Jitter
Robin Bell has not produced the numbers of "Maori and non "Maori" released on diversion for driving without a licence I requested. However he criticised me for not producing numbers. They are unfortunately/fortunately not easily accessible.
Got you Robin!!!
Posted on 23-06-2015 16:46 | By Kenworthlogger
He just makes it up as he goes along jItter
Kenworthlogger
Posted on 23-06-2015 22:15 | By YOGI BEAR
Now you have it sir, well done, that is how it has been from the beginning of time ...
Got you Robin !!!
Posted on 24-06-2015 10:37 | By robin bell
Well done kenny. As Peter pointed out the evidence is in the article. There are no statistics listed therefore your question is invalid and yet another example of cynical mischief making. If you believe the Commissioner of Police is exaggerating I suggest you take it up with him.If you believe the problem does't exist I suggest you join Jitter and YOGI BARE in cuckoo land. Robin Bell.
Now we want equality?
Posted on 24-06-2015 14:22 | By Noway Ray
There was no equality with the way Maori were treated when they were 'colonised' and now people dont like it when things are being evened up. Police know they are prejudiced against Maori, so they are trying to ease up. Good on them, about time
Bollocks
Posted on 24-06-2015 15:35 | By YOGI BEAR
Noway Ray, not a chance of that, the fact that 50% of the occupants of NZ Jails means the NZ Police, Courts and society as a whole are racist is a complete joke. Perhaps you would be better to focus on the reason of why they are there and assisting them to avoid being repeat offenders.
Response to Peter's comments
Posted on 25-06-2015 08:55 | By Anbob
Any decision from a judicial body (Waitangi Tribunal) accepting hearsay as evidence has to be corrupt or at least have the ability to be corrupted! If Govt
Anbob
Posted on 25-06-2015 10:27 | By YOGI BEAR
That is a good run down on both Robin and Peter, Robin in particular resorts to the racist card for anything other than what is his desired answer. I agree with you that a policy can be negative of positively racial. In the case of NZ Police it is positive racism as part Maori are receiving a benefit/preference ahead of another cultural group. Looking at the real Waitangi Treaty all the people of NZ were to be treated equally under the law. Clearly NZ Police have made a mistake here and sadly this only indicates what is becoming rife across a number of Bureaucracies for example Education where huge monies are being poured into part Maori only schools and the criteria is massively different from non-part Maori, these things speak volumes about the essence of it.
Anbob #2
Posted on 25-06-2015 11:28 | By YOGI BEAR
I believe that you have provided the evidence we have all been seeking for Robin to read, see and say. It is obvious of course the absence of the ability to complete that simple task, the score now is 17-0.
Anbob, face reality
Posted on 25-06-2015 12:31 | By Peter Dey
Anbob,we have a Waitangi Tribunal because after 150 years New Zealand governments finally conceded publicly that Maori had been defrauded of their land. We are now trying to be a non-racist society and to redress the wrongs done to Maori. The way that the Waitangi Tribunal works is a realistic way of finding out about these wrongs. Its findings are certainly not perfect but realistically they are the best we can do, and we have decided that finally the wrongs of the past toward Maori have to be redressed. The police decision not to prosecute Maori first time licence offenders is a similar realistic response to possible bias by frontline police against Maori. It is clear that too many first time Maori offenders were being prosecuted. The Commissioner has removed that possibility. Removing racism is not positive racism. The Commissioner did not say that the policy was wrong.
non-racist society ?
Posted on 25-06-2015 14:04 | By YOGI BEAR
Peter, you have not even understood your own writings here. Please read the article again, it illustrates preferential treatment and reflects a lot more going on all over the place, smell the roses ...
YOGI BEAR, this police policy is not racism
Posted on 25-06-2015 14:36 | By Peter Dey
YOGI BEAR and about 13 others have accused the police commissioner of being racist for promoting the policy for all first time Maori licence offenders to be offered retraining and not be prosecuted. The Commissioner is clearly dealing with a situation in his Department where some frontline officers are not offering retraining to Maori offenders. Too many Maori first time offenders are being prosecuted. The Commissioner is now ensuring that Maori offenders get the same treatment as everybody else, which is retraining rather than prosecution for first time offenders. This is not racist because Maori are not being treated as superior. Frontline police are simply being prevented from treating Maori as inferior. YOGI BEAR, It is not correct to describe the removal of bias as preferential treatment.
YOGI BEAR and people hiding their true identity
Posted on 25-06-2015 14:59 | By Peter Dey
It is probably significant that YOGI BEAR, and about 20 other writers here, are critical of the police but do not reveal their real name. The general population in New Zealand is now clearly opposed to racism. So people who accuse the police of giving preferential treatment to Maori, or being racist toward Pakeha, probably do not have the courage of their own convictions. They want to accuse other people of being racist but they know that, in fact, what they are protesting about is not really racist at all. They resent Maori progress but do not have good reasons to support their resentment. The reality is that Maori have been treated badly for a long time. Now we are becoming more tolerant, but the progress that Maori are making does not take away from anybody else. It is progress for everybody.
The police policy is racism?
Posted on 26-06-2015 14:11 | By YOGI BEAR
Even the Commissioner of Police agrees that it is, so not sure what planet you are from Robin?
YOGI BEAR, the Police Commissioner never said what you claim
Posted on 26-06-2015 14:23 | By Peter Dey
New Zealand Police Commissioner Mike Bush says police policy allowed officers to use their discretion to give all drivers time to fix a problem rather than paying a fine or being prosecuted. The policy had been in place for 10 years. "All New Zealanders may be offered traffic compliance if they meet the criteria, regardless of their ethnicity," says Mike. The "guidelines" document advising Counties Manukau police on how to deal with any Maori caught driving without a license "could have been worded better," says Mike. "All New Zealanders may be offered traffic compliance if they meet the criteria, regardless of their ethnicity," he says. YOGI BEAR, the Police Commissioner never said the policy was racist or that it would be changed.
I dont claim anything?
Posted on 26-06-2015 19:37 | By YOGI BEAR
I am simply informing you of what you have avoided recognizing and have not so stealthily stepped around and headed off in the opposite direction.
Police Commissioner said
Posted on 26-06-2015 21:08 | By YOGI BEAR
It was on talk back radio, he said it alright.
YOGI BEAR, talk back radio makes no difference
Posted on 27-06-2015 09:36 | By Peter Dey
YOGI BEAR, because you regularly ignore facts and make up fiction that you pretend to be fact, what you say about talk back radio is probably half truth, and taken out of context. The Police Commissioner is very clear in this article in the Bay Sun that the policy is not racist because "All New Zealanders may be offered traffic compliance if they meet the criteria, regardless of their ethnicity".
talk back radio makes no difference
Posted on 27-06-2015 11:37 | By YOGI BEAR
yes peter, you are right it does not make any difference, you are still wrong and nothing has changed that.
YOGI BEAR is UNAWARE,
Posted on 28-06-2015 08:58 | By robin bell
That he is completely out of his depth.Take a well meant tip YOGI,go back to sleep and do us all a favour. Robin Bell.
Is there different laws for part maori.
Posted on 28-06-2015 09:22 | By crazyhorse
Just take a look at Whanau Ora, the 'elite' took K1W1 money , the people involved with the fraud admitted it!, , everyone knows they did it but no one wants to bring them to justice, one of these people spent time in prison for stealing from a bank, hello, ringing any "bells" . How about we watch the Ngapuhi "leader" Sonny Tau "get out of this one", knock 5 native wood pigeons on the head, hide them under your coat and jump on a commercial flight, now remember we are dealing with the elite, , obviously not the sharpest tool in the shed but, best of the best of "part maori", look at the respect he has for the law, he had no sooner admitted the "crime" then went on to say what happened now would depend on """"if"""" he got charged.
You said it crazy,
Posted on 28-06-2015 10:22 | By robin bell
" one of these people spent time in prison for stealing money from a bank" proof the law works for all. Robin Bell.
Crazyhorse, using
Posted on 28-06-2015 10:31 | By Peter Dey
Crazyhorse, legally in New Zealand a Maori is any descendant of a Maori. "Part-Maori" is not used legally in New Zealand. People who use the term "Part-Maori" are therefore mostly using it to be offensive.
Part Maori
Posted on 28-06-2015 15:55 | By YOGI BEAR
That is a correct designation for how it is, Maori with "part" Maori blood, that means less than 50% because there are no Maori with any more than that. The really interesting aspect is the denial of the majority of the blood lines as being other than Maori. According to the UN to have a chance at being an "ethnic" culture the claimant needs to be at least 50% fo traceable/proved lineage. Part Maori are in complete denial on the blood lines so cant prove anything. Hence where the Waitangi Tribunal comes on, make it up as go, all behind closed doors. Ain't is grand ....
PART MAORI
Posted on 28-06-2015 17:34 | By crazyhorse
All I'm repeating is "facts", there are no full blood Maori left, some claiming "miniscule" amounts of Maori blood lines, this makes them "part maori", I'm not being offensive, it's """fact""".
YOGI BEAR, Maori are a UN recognised indigenous people
Posted on 28-06-2015 18:53 | By Peter Dey
YOGI BEAR has been told this before but chooses to pretend he hasn't. Maori are represented on the United Nations Forum for Indigenous Peoples by Valmaine Toki, a qualified lawyer who lectures at Auckland University. Anybody who has a Maori ancestor, in New Zealand, is legally Maori. The term part-Maori has no legal status, and people who use it are using it to be abusive. They are suggesting, wrongly, that some Maori people are not entitled to call themselves Maori.
Leave a Comment
You must be logged in to make a comment.