NZ flag debate opens up

A Mount Maunganui artist is awaiting the chance to submit his suggestion for a new national flag, as the public engagement process over a possible New Zealand flag change begins.

The independent flag consideration panel is launching its engagement campaign today, seeking public opinions and ideas.


Timo Rannali with his flag design. Photo: Tracy Hardy.

Designs submitted will be shortlisted by the panel and put to the public in a referendum later this year.

Among those waiting for the green light to submit is Mount Maunganui artist Timo Rannali.

'I am hot on to this process,” admits Timo.

'I am going to submit a flag. I am altering it [his original design] slightly, not that you would notice but there is a couple of little tweaks.”

Timo's flag has three sections.

'The blue is Ranginui (the Sky Father) and the stars indicate how Maori and European ancestors navigated their way here,” he explains.

'The red, blue and white acknowledges an English/European heritage and is an adaption of our existing flag.

'Tino Rangatiratanga – the Maori flag – celebrates our earliest inhabitants and the nation's journey through the Treaty of Waitangi.”

The Koru represents 'the unfolding of new life, continuity and hope. It is a unifying thing and all very positive,” says Timo.

The silver fern, the quasi-national emblem, is the stem of the country's backbone; the strength and the fronds represent the rich diversity of peoples. The arrow-like fern points lean skyward, signifying a nation's journey from strength-to-strength.

In 2009, Cabinet recognised the Tino Rangatiratanga flag as the preferred national Māori flag, and noted that it will complement the New Zealand Flag. A change to the New Zealand Flag would not affect the status of the national Maori flag.

Timo believes it is time for a flag change and believes his design has the potential to be in the running as the country's next flag.

'Eventually It could,” he says, 'who knows?”

A history of debate surrounds New Zealand's national flag, and for several decades alternative designs have been proposed with varying degrees of support. There is no consensus among proponents of changing the flag as to which design should replace it.

First adopted in 1902, Kiwis have been debating whether to replace the flag since the 1960s.

It has been changed twice before; first in 1834, when the first flag – now known as the Flag of the United Tribes of New Zealand – was chosen by Maori at Waitangi to represent New Zealand.

Then, following the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi in 1840, the Union Jack became New Zealand's official flag.

Other countries to have changed their flag are South Africa in 1994 and Canada in 1965.

Over the next few months, the independent flag consideration panel will seek designs and suggestions for a new flag from the public.

From that a shortlist of alternative flag designs will be determined ahead of the first vote later this year.

The panel's members include Xero chief executive Rod Drury, Olympic discus thrower Beatrice Faumuina and former All Blacks captain and coach Sir Brian Lochore.

The government had promised, out of respect, not to start the public engagement process on the flag until the Gallipoli commemorations were over.

There will be a two-step postal vote to determine whether or not New Zealand should keep its current flag.

In the first vote people will be asked to rank - using a preferential voting system - the preferred alternative designs.

The second vote, in March 2016, will be a run-off between the current flag and the winning alternative design.

The bill outlining the referendum process is before parliament's justice and electoral select committee.

The government's estimated the flag referendum process will cost just under $26m.

Flag referendum timeline:

May-August 2015: Designs and suggestions sought from the public and shortlist of alternative flag designs determined.

November-December 2015: First referendum for voters to pick their favourite alternative flag design

March 2016: Second referendum - run-off between the current flag and winning alternative design.

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38 comments

suckers!

Posted on 05-05-2015 14:17 | By yikes61

Stop airing this garbage! JK's greasers put forward a figure the public will foot of at least $26m for an idea supplied by JK publicity army the media are feeding on. The public do not want the flag changed, period!


not needed

Posted on 05-05-2015 14:48 | By Captain Sensible

We do not need a new flag.....just a new PM.


Beats Silver Fern

Posted on 05-05-2015 14:50 | By Noway Ray

Although I don't support changing our flag due to costs involved, this flag design has merit. The silver fern on its own doesn't represent more than a sporting icon.


yikes61

Posted on 05-05-2015 15:27 | By YOGI BEAR

Agree completely


You What!

Posted on 05-05-2015 15:37 | By Gigilo

That rag will not be flying in this country, the legally privileged portion is so far from reality. The people that pay will say and no way in the referendum that will be required that this one will get past the start line.


I kinda like it

Posted on 05-05-2015 18:50 | By FunandGames

im not sure why we need a new flag, I would like John Key to explain that one. Having said that this has had some thought put into it and does look good, much better than any other options I've seen. So well done Timo


Against the current opinion

Posted on 05-05-2015 19:56 | By Merlin

This absolutely ridiculously a waste of $26 Million Dollars as 70 percent do not want to change the flag that our soldiers died under.A referendum designed in a way John Key thinks will get through.This is just another fetish of his.He want's to go out with a new flag and a knighthood.So many gaffes from him now.


yuk

Posted on 05-05-2015 20:35 | By Capt_Kaveman

if that was our flag id burn it


Flag, then what???

Posted on 05-05-2015 20:52 | By Me again

A new anthem? Don't they go hand in hand. Another 20 or so million dollars. So wise chief start writing our new anthem. BL.... ridiculous!!


Not this design

Posted on 05-05-2015 21:49 | By jh

The designer tried to please everyone with this design and made it too complecated. The new flag should be simple and striking


Fred

Posted on 05-05-2015 23:07 | By YOGI BEAR

The knighthood is a definite regardless of anything else that happens, so is the super for life, the free travel, the limo anywhere including to the funeral plot. the NZ taxpayer provides all of this gratis.


Tino

Posted on 06-05-2015 06:17 | By maildrop

Get those glasses checked. Your flag is giving me a headache. Would look good on LSD though.


WTF?

Posted on 06-05-2015 07:45 | By Kenworthlogger

I dont remember voting on a referendum asking us do we want to change the flag. That desigh is total rubbish. MR Key you have lost my vote!


Inclusive not devisive

Posted on 06-05-2015 08:11 | By Murray.Guy

I immediately thought the design portrayed a 'them and us' them. If the flag is to be changed to better reflect New Zealand today, then that is what it should do, ideally with no emphasis on any particular grouping of people.


Fallacious Flags and Fools

Posted on 06-05-2015 08:35 | By ROCCO

This horrid aberration is not new it is effectively only the Tino maori flag. To think we are wasting $27million even considering this sort of garbage defies belief.The first question via referendum should have been at next election do you want to change the flag YES/NO if it is NO end of the charade.Initial cost virtually zilch.Politicians should not be running the country if this is how they waste our taxes. !!!


JUST

Posted on 06-05-2015 08:59 | By The Caveman

BURN that rag !


seesee

Posted on 06-05-2015 11:50 | By SeeSee

Their is only one thing that needs to be changed, urgently. That is our Prime Minister, John Key. He is a disgrace to NZ.


A great many countries

Posted on 06-05-2015 12:08 | By How about this view!

Are more than happy with colour alone. WHY do we have to have emblems? They only serve to upset some and encourage others. Just a thought, with our international trend setting approaches to SOME issues from minority groups, why not adopt the RAINBOW FLAG?? Would go down a treat with our P.C. Governments and councils.


Not much to choose from

Posted on 06-05-2015 13:33 | By maildrop

If you take away the heritage element, i.e. The Union Jack, what will you use? 1. A fern is not unique to NZ, 2. A kiwi which will soon be extinct, 3. Running out of ideas now....how about a cow? Laughing stock.


Wrong Time

Posted on 07-05-2015 15:11 | By Jitter

All the flag designs I have seen so far are absolute rubbish and do not reflect the multicultural diversity of NZ. Those that do include culture only include Maori and European. The designers of these do not understand how the NZ population is made up. I believe it is the wrong time for a new flag and we should wait until we become a republic. Why ? Because once this occurs the activists will want another new flag which will cost another twenty six million dollars which NZ can ill afford.The whole current excercise is a red herring and is intended to take the heat off the government.


John does what

Posted on 08-05-2015 11:01 | By Towball

John wants and no consideration for anyone other than the John Key elite. I guess if you sell of state housing, have $90 million for a few cyclists $26million for a flag why do you need to worry about the basics such as health education affordable housing affordable groceries and other state owned enterprises when we can just blow out these huge volumes of money on self driven projects. Not all of us are benefiting from the $1k a day increase from our multiple properties in Auckland free travel free lunches free transport and the multitude of other freebies that the vampires hook into. This Nation of people need to wake up and stand up and challenge this dictatorship. Is this why he is immersing himself with the Chinese etc for ideas on communism . What about our ANZACs why did they bother.


I agree

Posted on 08-05-2015 22:40 | By Mariana

I so agree with what Murray Guy, ROCCO and Jitter have to say.


Obvious

Posted on 09-05-2015 13:07 | By astex

Looking at the two poictures above there is only one obvious choice and that is the one we already have. Save the money for important issues.


WOFTAM?

Posted on 12-05-2015 16:28 | By YOGI BEAR

Just stop this madness and save $26m of taxpayers money, great done and over already. PS I would prefer a tax refund if there is this kind of money to waste on the likes of this.


Stuff it I am over it already and B/S hasn't even started

Posted on 12-05-2015 16:29 | By ROCCO

In a nutshell flag the bloody the flag charade can it and save $27million.


Too busy?

Posted on 16-05-2015 20:57 | By nathaniel81

I like the elements in this design, but it seems a bit too busy to me. Here's my idea. I also have done the same but with green at the base and white stars. Please share my design if you like it. https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/gallery/design/2691


New Plymouth

Posted on 17-05-2015 10:54 | By YOGI BEAR

Looks like the public have spoken and that simply is because this time they are a bit better informed than usual. 83% vote in the referendum against free loading non-elected appointees for life to Councils. It is great to see indeed :)


not a bad option

Posted on 17-05-2015 18:15 | By bayer

this is one of the better designs i have seen so far. i like how Timo has managed to include three elements of our identity, the southerncross, the silver fern and the maori sovreignty flag. The present flag is an out dated banner and well overdue for replacement. we need one that is about our great country, not one that looks like a copy of "big brothers" or looks like we are still hanging onto "mothers"apron strings.


Too Busy

Posted on 18-05-2015 13:24 | By Jitter

The above design is too busy and has too many elements. The design needs to be clear and simple. No one cultural group should be represented whereas this design appears to represent only Maori and European. Any new flag must be neutral and represent overall the many cultural groups who now make up the population of NZ. Many of the flag designs submitted are too busy and bi cultural only. I am currently working on a simple design which I shall submit shortly to join the hundreds of others. It is simple and has no reference to any particular culture.


bayer

Posted on 18-05-2015 22:30 | By YOGI BEAR

No mate, those sentiments are ill-founded. This little game is part of a way bigger series of targeted games to be played out. Be afraid ... be very afraid.


What about....

Posted on 19-05-2015 15:28 | By GreertonBoy

The brave soldiers who have fought and died for the flag we have now? What, just toss the flag they fought for in the bin and make up a new 'trendy' flag? What a load of tripe... leave our flag alone. Why cant we have a separate flag for the Maori, same as in Australia, the Aboriginal people have their own flag, which is recognised. Flags should be simple and easily recognised and drawn. That suggested monstrosity would never be able to be drawn by average citizens, as someone said, it is too busy. BTW, does anyone have any pictures or drawings of the flag the Maori people were using when Captain Cook poked his flag on the beach? What the Maori people were using then would be a good start for a modern Maori flag?


GreertonBoy

Posted on 20-05-2015 23:21 | By YOGI BEAR

Agree totally, least we forget ...


Yes

Posted on 24-05-2015 20:18 | By Kenworthlogger

Lest we forget! Long live the kiwi flag.


jmac

Posted on 26-05-2015 16:54 | By JohnMac

I have never heard a returned serviceman say they fought for the flag. This is the wrong argument to retain the flag that we have. There is no advantage for NZ to change the flag so use the money somewhere else. The example above would put me off any change if this is seriously considered an option then forget it. Air New Zealand Koro logo would work if we have to change. Simple and with real meaning as well.


Flogging a dead horse

Posted on 26-05-2015 21:11 | By ROCCO

Virtually no one turned up to the first panel meeting.Prognosis is that it's doomed as an exercise in idiocy.


The flag debate

Posted on 30-05-2015 06:48 | By Fonzie

Is all part of a bigger plan Sit back and watch it play out Unless your opinion fits exactly with that plan it won't mean a thing


If the public....

Posted on 02-06-2015 05:27 | By GreertonBoy

wants to get rid of the union jack, all blue with the stars in the same place would be better than some monstrosity that no one could draw without 5 minutes spare time and a picture to copy. Of course soldiers fought for their flag and defended their flag.... the flag we have now, the one they fought and died for.... to give us our freedom.... so we can waste our lives arguing about macrons and new flags and dribbling rubbish on facebook and all of those important things.... they would turn in their graves if they saw us today... shameful


GreertonBoy

Posted on 02-06-2015 23:45 | By YOGI BEAR

The process is not meaningless, at least to a few, the game si to keep the public attention focused on things of little merit so as not focused on anything useful and important.


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