Maori vote knockback

Maori aspirations for a ward seat on Tauranga City Council have been knocked back for another six years thanks to a unanimous vote against the recommendation from the Tangata Whenua committee.

Mayor Stuart Crosby says the current good relations are a reason why there shouldn't be a Maori seat, and he believes it would damage the current relationship and represent a 'big step backwards”.

Hopes for a Maori seat on the council have suffered a blow.

He says: 'I really believe if we pass this it would be very damaging, the time is not right.” Councillor Bill Grainger also insists the voting rights for a Maori seat would be unfair.

'Why should I have greater authority on the general roll than on the Maori Roll?” asks Bill. 'It doesn't add up and it's a little unfair.”

Bev Edlin says there no guarantee the councillor on the Maori seat would even be Maori. The representative has to be appointed by the Maori community, but that person doesn't have to be of Maori descent.

And John Robson says arguments based on fear and guilt are not a good basis for making decisions as they fail to recognise the validity of arguments on the other side.

'I think where we are at is a place on the journey,” he says. 'That's where we are - currently a good place - and I'm not wise enough to know for certain where a better place is.”

Steve Morris says Winston Peters and Simon Bridges were both elected to parliament from Tauranga because of what they stood for, not their genetics.

As a result of the vote the council is required to publicly notify the right of five per cent of the electors to demand a poll on Maori representation by November 30.

Based on the number of electors enrolled and eligible to vote in the 2013 triennial election, this represents 4,237 electors. A public demand for a poll is required to be provided to council within 90 days from the date of notification.

The poll is required to be undertaken no later than May 21, 2015, and would cost around $170,000. The outcome will be binding for the next two triennial elections.

Maori are projected to account for over one-quarter of the growth of the Bay of Plenty Region between now and 2021. Over the next two decades, young Maori and Pasifika adults will together account for around one-third of the nation's labour market entrants.

About 21 per cent, or one fifth of the Bay of Plenty workforce is of Maori ethnicity, yet half the unemployed people in the Bay of Plenty were Maori.

Maori aged 15-24 years now account for almost 40 per cent of all Bay of Plenty labour market entrants and are also most represented in growth in unemployed statistics.

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72 comments

Sanity has Prevailed!

Posted on 17-11-2014 15:49 | By Mackka

Sanity has prevailed and TCC has unanimously rejected this ridiculous proposal. Cheers TCC!! Miracles can happen!


Good Choice

Posted on 17-11-2014 16:59 | By carpedeum

Perhaps some of NZ is maturing a bit- well done for this decision TCC and also well pointed out by Councillor Morris around being ELECTED ON MERIT


At last

Posted on 17-11-2014 17:45 | By YOGI BEAR

One sensible vote has occurred and amazingly the cost to ratepayers will be reduced as a result, how can this be .... is this a 'hint' maybe of something a little more sensible appearing at last?


Sanity

Posted on 17-11-2014 19:29 | By penguin

The City Council has made a sensible decision. I presume councillors read the comments posted on SunLive and elsewhere. Maori should simply do what everyone else does - put up candidates with the requisite attributes for office and let the people vote accordingly.


Maori - REALLY

Posted on 17-11-2014 23:15 | By The Caveman

"Maori aged 15-24 years now account for almost 40 per cent of all Bay of Plenty labour market entrants and are also most represented in growth in unemployed statistics". SORRY its time to get real. 95% of so called Maori, have LESS than 20% Maori blood. There are other ethnic groups in NZ that can claim a far higher ethnic heritage, but don't claim it and don't ask or expect any special favours when it come to council representation. WELL done the TCC. (But don't backtrack next week/year).


Common sense!

Posted on 18-11-2014 08:10 | By penguin

The Councillors have made a sensible decision. I presume they also read the comments posted on SunLive showing overwhelming opposition to the idea of a 'special' seat on council. Maori should simply do what everyone else does - put up candidates with the requisite attributes for office and let the people vote accordingly.


Elected on merit.

Posted on 18-11-2014 08:40 | By robin bell

Providing that merit is the usual lopsided majority dominated lack of recognition on Maori rights. Congratulations T.C.C. Praise from the Whingers is rare indeed. Robin Bell.


@ robin bell

Posted on 18-11-2014 11:35 | By Captain Sensible

You really have a problem with democracy don't you? What about other minorities getting a seat as well...The Chinese, Solo Mothers, Vegetarians, wharfies, marajuana users, Budgie owners....should they all have a guaranteed seat as well?


Can't be trusted

Posted on 18-11-2014 13:58 | By Wingate

Sadly the Maori leadership in Tauranga have proven they are self-serving - I saw that in the Matakana Island litigation- complete Sir Peter Tapsell warned me long in advance they can't be trusted and how true was that advice


Robin Bell

Posted on 18-11-2014 14:26 | By Jitter

With your latest comment it shows how very twisted and bitter your thinking is.


Robin

Posted on 18-11-2014 17:33 | By Mackka

YOU STAND FOR COUNCIL THEN!!!!!!! You think no-one listens to maori - then put your 'money' where your mouth is! If you are not prepared to do this - then pull your head in. You have tunnel vision and wear blinkers as well when it comes to maori demands.


Fear of what?

Posted on 19-11-2014 06:10 | By AllBlacksFan

What do people have to fear about ensuring that Maori world views are represented in the decision making process? Fear of losing power? Fear that white middle class values are under threat? Some of these antiquated justifications for continued marginalisation of Maori are absolutely ridiculous and need to go along with the people who believe them.


No place in NZ for race based politics!!!

Posted on 19-11-2014 12:31 | By ROCCO

The only decision which was also the correct decision was made.Well done TCC Councillors in reaching the right result unanimously.


@ AllBlacks Fan

Posted on 19-11-2014 12:32 | By Captain Sensible

Have you not noticed how radical maori demands want separatist and apartheid status. Besides, what do they have to fear from democracy? Why should maori have any special race based rights denied to other kiwis?


DEMOCRACY, the narrow view,

Posted on 23-11-2014 15:43 | By robin bell

one Man/Woman one vote. Result=Tyranny of the Majority.Fact. Imagine the chaos if the likes of yo-bear,cap'n (not so) sensible and supporters were allowed such power.Maori are the founding partners of this country,as such they have to present their credentials,unimpeded by the bigotry, displayed by those mentioned. Robin Bell.


Robin Bell

Posted on 24-11-2014 21:17 | By Fonzie

Talks about tyranny of the majority He obviously is of the same camp as the Mayor of New Plymouth who wants 50% guaranteed representation for minority Maori throughout the country and parliament to ban binding referendums to stop it being blocked Tyranny of the Minority being better apparently Congratulations to TCC for avoiding that mess


Autonomous areas for Maori needed

Posted on 25-11-2014 00:09 | By marshamaxw

Create autonomous areas for maori in tribal areas as principalities where they have limited sovereignty but are still under common law.The treaty representation can never realise under the present polity.The system is not working for maori.


C'mon fonzie,

Posted on 25-11-2014 10:16 | By robin bell

your twisting the truth yet again. I have never,ever called for 50% representation on any council.You must stick to the truth fonze,or you will, be caught out. There are a number of possibility's with the Mayor of New Plymouth calling for 50% It could be he is kite flying,or perhaps is in your camp,and is looking for a vehement Pakeha backlash. Maybe he's a supporter of Maori rights and has started high,who knows? One thing is for sure fonz the Tyranny of the majority died 50 years ago. Now we have fairness,and we will keep it. Robin Bell.


Twisting the truth?

Posted on 28-11-2014 14:20 | By YOGI BEAR

Actually its called "Twisting the Treaty" and that is about "Twisting the Truth", you are familiar indeed with the latter, not the former. I would recommend reading the former with an open mind that will look at consider and comprehend new things .... Robin, I think you will find that the reference by the Mayor of New Plymouth to 50% representation is to let the public know what is coming from vested Maori interests, that it is bad, unfair, non democratic, contrary to the treaty and so on. If that invokes a referendum then that will generate a result of some 80-85% against it, Maori would be wise to just let it go, accept the treaty terms of the queens law applies to all equally as signed off in 1840. Simple really isn't it.


Actually yogi,

Posted on 28-11-2014 16:53 | By robin bell

I'm familiar with both of the 'interpretations' and 'intentions' of your favorite 'Alternative History' narrative ,written by unqualified dreamers like yourself.Please tell us again of its status as a 'best' seller.None of its working,you would be well advised to leave the problems to greater minds.Of course you won't,eventually shuffling off to the oblivion you came from.Robin Bell.


Robin

Posted on 29-11-2014 07:18 | By Fonzie

If you have read the book and know who the author is and label him an " unqualified dreamer" then I am lost for words


Lost for words fonzie,

Posted on 29-11-2014 10:35 | By robin bell

some people would welcome that. So, name one of the 'authors' of T.the T. that is a Genetic scientist,a Professional Historian, an Anthropologist,ethnologist or any other suitable qualification relating to the history of N.Z. You can't,you know it,I rest my case. Robin Bell.


Robin

Posted on 01-12-2014 21:36 | By Fonzie

I can indeed answer your challenge but look up the qualifications and career of the person in question yourself Your case is not rested its dead


fonzie,

Posted on 02-12-2014 18:01 | By robin bell

your just like old crazy,I hope N.P.D. is not catching. So,in your 'Topsy' world fonze we can engage a plumber to wire up our house, a Mathematician to do the septics,a Butcher to do Brain Surgery or a bus driver to fly us to the Moon. It 'might work' fonze but chances are they will get it as wrong as the 'authors' of T.the T. Robin Bell.


The TCC is ignoring the race relations tide

Posted on 05-12-2014 12:43 | By Peter Dey

The tide of race relations in New Zealand is flowing in the direction of greater fairness toward the Maori community, and less irrational fear of things Maori by younger Pakeha. Younger Pakeha have always sung the National Anthem in Maori. It is only older generations who think that being more fair to Maori takes something away from Pakeha. Society is evolving. TCC has misunderstood the direction of the evolution.


Race relations tide

Posted on 05-12-2014 21:21 | By crazyhorse

Young "pakeha" ,meaning non, very part maori have been subjected to a whole different "story" as in history to the "new" very part maori friendly treaty troughing industry history that the rest of NZ grew up on!!, serial killers are now just miss understood "heroes", maybe Dey would like some examples?.


More of the same,

Posted on 06-12-2014 09:34 | By robin bell

from the crazy one. War is serial killing, 'heroes are subjective'. History taught in school,simply reminds of mistakes made or the opposite. The ONLY way forward for N.Z. is to continue on the path we are now on. The alternative will make crazy's 'treaty troughing' look like Pennies from Heaven. Robin Bell.


Same old....

Posted on 10-12-2014 14:05 | By waxing

Same old people with the same old tired opinions denying any facts. No rational discussion, just feeding irrational egos. Better to talk with those who are prepared to have a discussion. And by the way Fonzie, "Twisting the Treaty" did not have one author - there are multiple authors, NONE of whom are professional historians, relevant scientists (there is a mathematician and a physicist - clearly relevant!), geneticists, or anthropologists.


I for one,

Posted on 10-12-2014 16:31 | By robin bell

would love to have the 'rational' discussion, waxing. Problem is its not about discussion at all. Those I oppose,are 'in the main' anti Maori,they see no place for discussion,only opinion. Not one has yet answered my 'question' How can any Maori,wishing to represent Maori issues,be elected 'ON MERIT' under the current narrow view of democracy. Or do they simply not have that right? Big questions I believe. Robin Bell.


same old

Posted on 10-12-2014 22:31 | By crazyhorse

Produce a version of NZ history that everyone agrees on and heypresto all is sorted out!.


@ch

Posted on 11-12-2014 12:41 | By waxing

The only problem is that you have never accepted here or elsewhere any research or objective fact that refutes your opinions. And you have constantly used personal and denigrating comments in response. Personally, I don't think you ever want to agree with anything - you are just here to play games with people.


HISTORY AND RESEARCH

Posted on 11-12-2014 19:41 | By crazyhorse

Give us some history and research on whats going on at the moment with the Waitangi tribunal's ""latest" findings. Example, right at this moment the Waitangi tribunal has even gone against it's own highly paid researchers,The attempt by the Waitangi Tribunal to rewrite history and claim sovereignty over New Zealand for the tribal elites they represent is driving a wedge of apartheid into the heart of New Zealand. This openly racist organisation is setting tribe against tribe, New Zealander against New Zealander,surprise surprise, the average maori has had a "gutsfull" as well. Ngapuhi leader David Rankin says the Tribunal report defames the memory of Hone Heke, and of his whanau's oral histories, and that if the tribunal refuses to alter the report to reflect the testimony he provided at the hearing, he will lodge a Treaty claim against the tribunal itself, a first in Treaty history, for prejudicial effect.


General Seats In Parliament

Posted on 11-12-2014 20:39 | By Jitter

Mr Bell should watch Parliament and he would then see the number of "Maori", Asian, Pacifica etc politicians in general seats in all parties. If they can do it in the bigger arena why not the same in local body ie TCC. I accept that some of those in Parliament are List MPs but at least they have made it within the system and were not handed seats and large salaries just because of their culture. They obtained their seats through the democratic electoral system chosen by the people of NZ, hopeless system that it is.


Ngapuhi leader David Rankin

Posted on 12-12-2014 09:25 | By crazyhorse

{the tribunal is now telling us that all those chiefs saw the Declaration of Independence, which a few had signed in 1835, as being the basis of their relationship with the British. That is a lie that is not what the tribunal was told}. . The Tribunal makes up history as it goes along. growing numbers of New Zealand historians are pointing this out, although most of them are labelled as racist for doing so. Facts are omitted in Tribunal reports, evidence is shaped in some cases to fit predetermined outcomes. As an example, I gave evidence at a Tribunal hearing about my ancestor Hone Heke, the first chief to sign the Treaty. because the oral history of our whanau did not fit with the Tribunal's narrative, my testimony was excluded. radicals with little knowledge of our history had their testimony included because it fitted with separatist agenda.


Ngapuhi leader David Rankin

Posted on 12-12-2014 09:46 | By crazyhorse

{David Rankin on the Waitangi tribunal}. In the 1970s, many of us hoped that the Tribunal would be an organisation that would achieve reconciliation. It has turned out to be a body that is bringing in apartheid to New Zealand. This sounds dramatic, until you see how it advocates for race-based access to certain areas, and race-based management policies for Crown land. 3. Treaty settlements make tribal corporations rich, with the help of favourabole tax status and often little or no rates to pay. So with these advantages its pretty easy to become super profitable. But do you think the average Maori sees any benefit from this? None at all. I have been asked several times to be on trust boards and have been offered large sums of money to do so. I refuse. History will judge the kupapa (traitors) who have abandoned our people for money.


Waitangi Tribunal is lying to Maori

Posted on 12-12-2014 10:02 | By crazyhorse

New Zealanders both Maori and Pakeha have been backseat spectators as the Treaty of Waitangi has gradually been re-written, re-interpreted and ultimately tortured to become something it never was, two recent Waitangi Tribunal rulings show it's time to blow the whistle.. The Waitangi Tribunal has the sole ‘power' in New Zealand to interpret the Treaty, that means the 'claims must be right'; the only body in New Zealand with authority to make a ruling has made its ruling, so live with it! The people who follow that logic , with respect, display intellect as shallow as a birdbath. Although parliament has the power to pass a law ordering the death of all blond, blue-eyed babies at birth, having the power to issue an edict does not by definition make the edict right. or sustainable in logic. Hitler issued lots of edicts that were lawful in their time,"makes you think


'mr jitter'

Posted on 12-12-2014 14:11 | By robin bell

your mindset will not allow logical discussion. The party political system we 'enjoy' denies Maori proper representation. Clearly you are happy with that. Thankfully most fair minded people see the inequity and non democratic elements,and are prepared to remedy them.The inconsistency in your arguments are best summed up in your mate crazy horses latest rants. For years he has denigrated Maori oral history,now resorting to just that from the Ngapuhi 'nutter' David Rankin who sold out to conspiracy years ago. Perhaps crazy and you believe ,'he who shouts the loudest' wins TUT tut!! mr jitter. Robin Bell.


JIM GREY ON MAORI IN ROTORUA COUNCIL

Posted on 13-12-2014 10:21 | By crazyhorse

I was a member of the original Te Arawa Standing Committee and five years ago wrote a paper on the anomalies of the time as to why this committee was not working, there was conflict between the different Maori organisations such as occurred with resource consents. However, the point I make is that the council is making special concessions in regards to Maori representation. The only way - as seen by council - that I am able to get representation is through special legislation. In other words, I am not capable of taking my chances on a level playing field. The implication of that special legislation concession, call it what you may, is that I am not good enough to be able to stand on my own representing Maori and I need to be assisted or helped - 170 years after the Treaty? JIM GRAY Rotorua


Jim Grey,

Posted on 13-12-2014 12:06 | By robin bell

may or may not be capable of representing his people. However his chances of being elected by a predominantly Pakeha society has proven impossible. Pakeha have found it impossible to accept The Maori world view,seeing it as both a 'threat' and inferior to their own.Crazy horse and co. have no answer to this dilemma,hence their decent into race based politics and the continuing denigration of all things Maori. It is changing,New Zealand will be a better place for it, in spite of crazy and co. Robin Bell.


Robin Bell

Posted on 13-12-2014 15:24 | By crazyhorse

Quote,{. Not one has yet answered my 'question' How can any Maori,wishing to represent Maori issues,be elected 'ON MERIT' under the current narrow view of democracy. Or do they simply not have that right? Big questions I believe.}. Rotorua district councilors, Trevor Maxwell,"deputy mayor", Merepeka Raukawa- Tait, and 21 year old Tani Tapsell all got elected to their positions campaigning on maori issues, Tani Tapsell said from the start she was going to do all she could to help "her" people, good luck to them, they worked hard got the respect from Rotorua rate payers and quess what?, got elected!, Trevor Maxwell is also a veteran Kapa Hake representative and organiser, also, if maori are given seats on council or anything else, how do the get picked, or is it business as usual, those nearest the rim of the "trough"?.


The Broken Record

Posted on 13-12-2014 16:59 | By Jitter

Mr Bell is like a broken record as he keeps repeating the same half truths to suit himself again and again. He seems to forget that we are no longer a bicultural country but are multicultural and therefore all cultures should have the same chance of representation in both local and central government. If he wants a "Maori" ward in Tauranga then separate wards must be created also for Asians, Pacifica and Indian etc cultures. If he does not agree with this then he is a narrow minded racist. They really do not require separate wards as they could all stand "at large" and if they are worthy and possess the necessary qualities they will be elected no matter what their culture. I would like to see the ward system dispensed with completely so that it is open slather for all candidates. Then we would see who would make i


Jitter, you misunderstand multiculturalism

Posted on 13-12-2014 18:43 | By Peter Dey

Being multicultural does not mean that all cultures should be treated the same as Maori. Only Maori signed the Treaty of Waitangi, only Maori have separate Parliamentary seats, only Maori is an official language, only Maori still own land from pre-European times. Obviously Maori are different from every other minor cultural group. What Robin Bell repeats are truths not half-truths.


Half Truths,

Posted on 13-12-2014 20:01 | By robin bell

mr jitter and crazy-horse claim I speak half truths. How so? The Human Rights Commission of N.Z. support The Maori Choice. Maori are elected to Councils,however they are NOT accountable to a Maori electorate,so therefore do NOT represent Maori. Mikare Rangitea (Ralph)Love became a voice for his people (land,education etc) only after leaving Wellington City Council,forbidden to speak out on Maori affairs due to his position as a Public Servant. mr jitter continues to defy logic,by claiming Maori are simply another ethnic group. Maori are joint signatories in the formation of this nation,and as such have a right to proper representation, over and above all others,excepting of course the other signatory. Half truths mr jitter,I think not. Robin Bell.


RE-WRITING HISTORY!

Posted on 14-12-2014 10:33 | By crazyhorse

The Waitangi Tribunal released a report into the claim by Ngapuhi and other northern iwi that their chiefs did not cede sovereignty to the Crown when they signed the Treaty of Waitangi. Historian Professor Paul Moon, from the Auckland University, said the most concerning aspect of the report was the way the tribunal seemed to be re-writing history with little apparent regard for evidence: 'This report may serve the interests of some groups, but it distorts New Zealand history in the process, and seriously undermines the tribunal's credibility. I was shocked by some of the statements contained in the report. This is not a concern about some trivial detail, but over the fundamental history of our country, which the tribunal has got manifestly wrong.”There will be calls for "more compensation" and fresh claims for Crown resources of land, water, oil, and minerals - perhaps even for "private property".


Independence expected??

Posted on 14-12-2014 10:38 | By crazyhorse

By issuing their report claiming that iwi did not cede sovereignty to the Crown, the Waitangi Tribunal has clearly revealed its agenda and displayed a lack of the independence expected of a Crown agency. In light of the findings of the Supreme Court, Judge Willy, and many others, that the Treaty conferred no form of joint sovereignty or partnership on Maori, it's time that taxpayer funding to the Waitangi Tribunal was stopped. It is disgraceful that the Tribunal would deliver such arrant nonsense in a report, but it becomes unacceptable when it does so with the benefit of taxpayer funding.


Misunderstand multiculturalism?

Posted on 14-12-2014 12:51 | By YOGI BEAR

This is not about misunderstanding, I think the realistic commenters here very much understand what is happening in the realm of Robin and Peter. Basics 101, Peter and Robin have both genuinely ascribed to separatism, apartheid and race based privilege all of these things are contrary to the Treaty of 1840, you know Peter and Robin, the one everyone signed, not the other fake on that is in the Waitangi Act of 1975. You know the truth on that as well as everyone else. So the simple principles of the real treaty (Littewood draft - English then translated to Maori, a written language put to paper by the settlors) is what matters, you can twist the treaty all you wish, but in end result it is what it is as at 6/2/1840, accept it, live with it and stop trying to make it into something else.


Maori multiculturalism

Posted on 14-12-2014 12:55 | By YOGI BEAR

Means: me, myself and I. the definition evidenced by Maori activists, a minority, to date has been devastating to any genuine cultural equality in New Zealand. While one selfish group seeks absolute preference then there will always be trouble as a result. Simple look at South Africa. Previous to change was not good for the local peoples but it looks worse afterwards, think about it ...


In a further attempt

Posted on 14-12-2014 13:31 | By robin bell

to 'create havoc' in N.Z the ubiquitous crazy horse once again resorts to exaggerated claims. Judge Anthony Willy,disgraced,retired district court judge right wing blogger and fanciful re writer of history being his latest. High Court Judge Grant Hammond described his 'melancholy burden' in ordering a retrial,on the grounds that Willy conducted an unfair trial,commenting that a complete re trial was necessary because Willy'so misconducted himself' and such conduct was very rare in N.Z. estimated reimbursement of costs,$160,000. Robin Bell.


Judge Anthony Willy

Posted on 14-12-2014 15:24 | By YOGI BEAR

So that being the case, clearly the Waitangi tribunal looks to be so much worse, the decision made by that outfit simply needs to be that whatever they decide then the opposite is the actual decision because that would be just to all.


RE-WRITING HISTORY!

Posted on 14-12-2014 16:19 | By crazyhorse

The Waitangi tribunal is doing that Robin, you say all your research and history is "rock" solid, so give us all the info used by the Waitangi tribunal for issuing their report claiming that iwi did not cede sovereignty to the Crown, remember Robin all this is based on rock solid evidence! you yourself keep telling us this, now I have not got personnel since waxy told me off so show me the same "respect" and instead tell us the facts on this massive turn around on the "meaning of the treaty", Paul Moon, who you have a very high regard for as well as other treatyist researchers say all that the tribunal is saying is "wrong", go's against all NZ history and research, so a few "answers" please", I hope you had a nice weekend.


The so called 'Littlewood treaty,

Posted on 14-12-2014 17:27 | By robin bell

is an unsigned document, as such it cannot be considered a treaty. Not now, not ever, but keep whinging yogi, fits you well. Robin Bell.


YOGI BEAR, Pakeha griever

Posted on 14-12-2014 18:37 | By Peter Dey

YOGI BEAR is grieving for the past before we understood the accurate history of the Treaty of Waitangi and the Government theft of Maori land. What YOGI describes as separatism, apartheid, and race based privilege is actually just modern knowledge of our history and greater justice for Maori. In 1840 Governor Hobson sent official English and Maori versions of the Treaty to the Colonial Office. They still exist. The Littlewood document is not official.


YOGI BEAR, Pakeha griever

Posted on 14-12-2014 22:07 | By crazyhorse

YOGI BEAR is grieving for the past before we''understood the ""ACCURATE""' history of the Treaty of Waitangi'' and the Government theft of Maori land' actually modern knowledge of our history and greater justice for Maori. Please explainThe rangatira, or Maori leaders, who signed te Tiriti o Waitangi in February 1840 agreed to share power and authority with Britain, but did not give up sovereignty to the British Crown, according to stage one of The Waitangi Tribunal's inquiry into Te Paparahi o te Raki (the great land of the north) Treaty claims. "That is, they did not cede authority to make and enforce law over their people or their territories," the tribunal said.how many times do I have to ask you Bell, Dey , waxy, give us an answer.


Crazyhorse, nobody rewrites history

Posted on 14-12-2014 23:33 | By Peter Dey

The Waitangi Tribunal has no power to impose its decisions on anybody else. They can only make recommendations to the Government. Most people who are interested know that Ngapuhi have never accepted that their declaration of independence was overturned by the Treaty of Waitangi. Events can be historical fact. Historical intentions and beliefs can never be historical fact. Every time somebody unearths new historical material our understanding changes. That is not rewriting history. It is just a more accurate understanding. You are living in the past, fifty years ago, when the Government could ignore injustice to Maori at will.


Crazyhorse, Pakeha griever

Posted on 15-12-2014 13:23 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse seems to grieve for the time before modern knowledge allowed us to understand our history more clearly. Pakeha grievers want to deny all modern knowledge and look back to the time when the Government held Pakeha dominated control over Maori affairs. It seems that the Waitangi Tribunal has accepted that northern Maori understood that they were giving up government not sovereignty when they signed the Treaty. Our government still governs, and the Tribunal still only recommends.


Mission Impossible Crazyhorse

Posted on 15-12-2014 16:07 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse is on a mission impossible. He is doing his best to persuade people that initiatives by Maori or for Maori are really a grab for money and power. There is no credible evidence that would back up this mission, although many people are willing to be persuaded. As we evolve as a society more and more people are learning to enjoy the contribution that Maori culture provides. We have moved on from the past that Pakeha grievers are obsessed with.


IT'S ONLY

Posted on 16-12-2014 08:23 | By crazyhorse

There have been over 200 contemporary claims filed with the Waitangi Tribunal. Ngapuhi claimants even talking about lodging a claim for the commercial use of wind .Customary rights to water is another example, but there are many more. Some have failed; others have succeeded, like the water claim. But all of these claims concern the actions of successive governments since 1992 showing that the treaty troughers will always have a fresh trough to feed from, the treaty claims so far will never match what is to come, contemporary claims, wind, water, airwaves , even talking about so called social injustices, smoking, over weight, can't get a job, it's your fella's fault. Each successive Gov't has ensured the door is opened just a few inches more, and when it is ripped open completely we will see a feeding frenzy that will awaken even the most lethargic KIWI!!, MAYBE TO LATE?.


Ninety Mile Beach

Posted on 16-12-2014 08:35 | By crazyhorse

Co- governance, hmm, so why do the part maori side of the co-governance want to start charging people to use it, Like lake Taupo, they charge for it but does the money go back into "conservation" looking after the "co-governed area, no the tax payer gets invoiced for that as well, feeding from both ends of the trough at the same time, the Kaituna river will be next, that will be interesting seeing that it's nearly all Maori dairy farming near to it, who's guna charge who. Throughout History all land has been won by conquest - so, get out of my "wallet".


Obsessive resentment Crazyhorse

Posted on 16-12-2014 10:07 | By Peter Dey

Wrongdoing occurs all the time by all sections of society. Court cases are a regular part of life, Maori and Pakeha. Crzyhorse obsesses over Maori claims when they are only a small part of the total. There has been no claim for wind by Maori. This is just more misinformation designed to mislead people. Mission impossible crazyhorse. Your non-credible information does not justify your obsession.


Ninety Mile Beach,

Posted on 16-12-2014 10:28 | By robin bell

Why should a small charge apply? I'll tell you dummies.Fifty years ago (in the 'good' old days)when Maori owned land was 'open slather' my family used to holiday at Te Kaha. Maori owned land pretty much all the way. People would arrive from all over the N.Island, hundreds of them. When they left,many or most of them left their 'crap' (literally) behind, for the Maori owners to clean up, following year,just turn up again like it was their right. Now, no more goodwill, fences up,no entry. That's why. Robin Bell.


Wisechief

Posted on 16-12-2014 10:30 | By Wise Chief

I do agree with some commenters that some local Maori leaders or so called settlements negotiators and administrators cannot be trusted even by their own. Most in my experienced opinion are self serving. As a prime initiator and driver of many changes for Maori and Pakeha across these lands since engaging in 1972 at Waitangi and via numerous threads of legislation now enacted I will state matter of factly the Maori are their own worse enemy and the government has and does exploit this as best it can. Most of those who have via government appointment or rather coerced imposition who now control vast sums of maori money not including all those funds hidden in government managed trusts here and offshore as far afield as London Madrid, Capetown, Durban etc can not and will not at anytime ever do what is right for Maori Peoples using their own funds.


Only smear not facts, Wise Chief

Posted on 16-12-2014 13:30 | By Peter Dey

Saying that Maori are their own worst enemies is not fact just a smear. Maori have had an enormously difficult period in their history when Pakeha Governments used their power to exploit Maori in all manner of ways. The Waitangi Tribunal now provides a factual record of much of this exploitation. Maori are now working their way back to a vigorous future. Their leaders are not perfect, just like our Pakeha leaders when they have mismanaged our economy over the past 30 years.


Living in the Past

Posted on 16-12-2014 14:16 | By Jitter

Robyn Bell is living in the past with his protestations that only "Maori" and the British European have any rights under the Treaty of Waitangi. Now that NZ is a real multicultural nation and the Treaty is an outdated document well past it's used by date it is time for NZ to move on and for the current "Maori" people to get over the so called crimes perpetrated against them in the distant and not so distant past. Many current "Maori" are trying to do this and are sick and tired of claims by "Maori" activists. How do I know this ? Because the well educated "Maori" members of my extended family have told me so. They cannot wait to see the Waitangi Tribunal disbanded and the Treaty become what it now should be ie part of past history.


IT'S ONLY STARTING

Posted on 16-12-2014 16:39 | By crazyhorse

E. T. Durie, chair of the Tribunal from 1981 to 2000 ‘made clear his belief that the Tribunal should help to rewrite New Zealand history from a "Maori point of view'”. The re-writing of history by the Waitangi Tribunal is still occurring today. It has a sinister side in that young school children are regularly indoctrinated with what is effectively anti-colonisation Tribunal propaganda. Meanwhile, governments continue to apologise for fabricated historical events that did not take place. The former Waitangi Tribunal Chairman Justice E.T. Durie even admitted that history was being distorted by the Tribunal in a paper Ethics and Values that he wrote in 1999. It is ironic that in New Zealand this iwi elite and their supporters are hellbent on establishing racial separatism and race-based privilege at the same time much of the rest of the world is trying to establish democracy.


Pull the other one mr jitter

Posted on 16-12-2014 17:20 | By robin bell

you just don't get it,and with your mindset you never will. So now under the jitter doctrine, the unfortunate victims of rampant theft,simply roll over and because we are now 'multi-cultural' all is forgiven and Maori become 'two-time' losers. Not on your life mr jitter. Robin Bell.


Jitter is in disneyland

Posted on 16-12-2014 17:39 | By Peter Dey

Jitter claims that well educated Maori members of his whanau want to see the Waitangi Tribunal disbanded. They might be well educated for their vocation but they certainly are not well educated in the history of the struggle by Maori over the past 50 years. And they certainly are not involved in working with any iwi, or involved in any Maori cultural activities. Jitter is probably telling them what they think.


peter sharples vision for nz in the future

Posted on 16-12-2014 19:13 | By crazyhorse

Dey, Bell, and other "apologists"make excuses and "hail" anything the Waitangi tribunal comes up with, Sharples comes out and tells us how it is , what part maori really want. Well to start with anyway, who know where "contemporary" claims will end up,In the future according to Pita Sharples: 1. An Upper Treaty Senate would remain the goal of the constitutional review. 2. The Whanau Ora slush fund would be greatly expanded to include social development, education, and employment. 3. Nominated Maori statutory boards for all local authorities around the country. 4. The signing of the United Nations Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous People will lead to perpetual race-based claims requiring a Minister for the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Negotiations. 5. Maori language would become compulsory. 6. Prisons would become the main training scheme for Maori where access is gained by committing crime. Least Pete's honest?.


FEEDING THEIR OWN?

Posted on 16-12-2014 19:23 | By crazyhorse

It would appear for the first time that Maori are starting to question the wealth the Maori Corps and Iwi have and why they are not helping their people. The questions are being asked because of the fact that Maori are unable or are just not qualified to feed their own kids. The blame and solution for the white man to spoon feed them appears to be shifting. Now, what will happen if their questioning gains momentum? Even rumblings on audits are being thrown around. Will legislation be introduced that makes questioning these corporations illegal? Will the questioning be classed as inciting racial hatred? Will it be seen if the Maori take action to get their slice from the Iwi trigger some fantasy of the crown neglecting its obligations of the treaty and extra top ups will have to be made, (WATCH THIS PAGE CAMPERS)


Wisechief

Posted on 17-12-2014 10:53 | By Wise Chief

I attended two meetings recently where it became very clear if one is not up to date and in with so called elitist settlements groups be one from North or South one cannot under any and all circumstances obtain a small grant or loan to start ones own business or to start or complete a project towards self employment or to benefit the Hapu or IWI. Seems all other members lack such capability other than the elites at the top who usually got their extended families to vote them into current positions while leaving those of senior lineage with small numbers of elderly left to vote high an dry and yet these are the rightful beneficiaries. We seem to have been consigned to the used by date bin even though we bore the brunt of the original costs and efforts to get them all where they are today. Traitors.


Not so wise,

Posted on 17-12-2014 13:13 | By robin bell

Wise chief. The IWI groups have a responsibility to protect settlement monies,invest wisely and build for the future. Very recently you "offered" to raise the Rena. Is that the type of business you need money for? It seems for you, 'the sky is the limit' not so the IWI you 'approached'. Try the bank or a venture capitalist. The knockers in these columns,would like nothing more,than IWI to squander the settlements. Its a tough world Wisechief. Robin Bell.


Crazy hose,

Posted on 17-12-2014 13:25 | By robin bell

I have to admit your the proverbial Soloman. When you hit the 'brick wall' change the subject, spin the facts and hope to hell enough spinners believe it all. As Peter says Mission Impossible crazy. N.Z. is well rid of your craziness. Robin Bell.


IWI

Posted on 17-12-2014 17:55 | By crazyhorse

Treaty claims will never end. For one reason or another past settlements of claims weren't good enough. It might just be because we want more now, and we're breaking our word, but that doesn't matter because we've got the Treaty, and it says we can do anything. If we want more and more then we're entitled to have it and we're going to have it, and there's going to be trouble if we don't. Nothing else is ‘justice'. And even if at some future time we do decide we won't make another claim, that's not the end of the story, because then the Crown and Maori just move on into a ‘new phase in their relationship'. You are never going to escape us, and our desires are insatiable. Land, wealth, power, the works, and then the coup de grace, "contemporary" claims".


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