Treaty negotiations: Over it - big time

So G McIsaac (‘Process of addressing historical issues in fairness', The Weekend Sun, June 13) believes in fairy tales.

Bruce Moon recently outlined what constitutes real theft of Maori land and asked very publicly if anyone knows (quote):

'Excluding such cases since 1840 from consideration, I invite Mr Clark and others to identify instances of real theft of Maori land”.The silence was deafening. Not one reply.
If you've ‘studied' the Treaty of Waitangi, perhaps it's time you studied how the Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975 was set up by the then Labour Government of Geoffrey Palmer and we believe was used by successive governments since to buy Maori votes.

The Waitangi Tribunal is made up of either all Maori or mostly Maori who hear claims and settle them behind closed doors with the Government. We are over it big time.

We pay non-stop for breakfast in schools, prisons, refuges, unemployment and every other handout imaginable, without ‘gifts' for false claims.

In our opinion, Maori are being rewarded for bad behaviour and it has to stop.
Why should we all work to pay for this. Many thanks for giving us the chance to air our views.

T & J Hill, Tauranga South.

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68 comments

Waitangi Tribunal

Posted on 27-06-2014 21:47 | By $10 Tauranga

T & J Hill I suggest you do some research before making uneducated claims. The tribunal members reflect the partnership of the Treaty of Waitangi through an approximately equal representation of M?ori and P?keh?. Member profiles can be found at http://www.justice.govt.nz/tribunals/waitangi-tribunal/about/tribunal-members Generally, the Tribunal has authority only to make recommendations. In certain limited situations, the Tribunal does have binding powers, but in most instances, its recommendations do not bind the Crown. Your opinion of deals being done behind closed doors are far removed from the actual process. The Hon Bill Rowling was the PM in 1975 when the Waitangi Tribunal was established in 1975 by the Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975.


$10.la la land

Posted on 28-06-2014 15:15 | By crazyhorse

no corruption in the Waitangi tribunal, it's "squeaky clean". He forgets in previous "discussions" on SunLive we have proved otherwise. E T Durie former chairmen of the tribunal admits in published papers on, believe it or not "ethics" that research and history is only used if it suits, researchers asked to change their findings or maybe they don't get payed, Durie himself got caught out preparing briefs for his own wife Donna Hall who was going to submit them to the tribunal,he resigned but his mate Dougy Graham kept him on, "treaty troughers"are over the moon with this set up it get the "job" done, read all about it. http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA9907/S00608.htm Dr. Michael Bassett FORMER WAITANGI TRIBUNAL MEMBER. "the industry" doesn't want the Tribunal process ever to end.


Yes $10 Tauranga...but....

Posted on 29-06-2014 19:16 | By groutby

Do you have a comment in regard to the last three brief paragraghs by the writer, which suggest is the "crux" of the comment in general?...after all this is indeed the reality of the current situation with no resolve in sight, just more, well, exactly what these comments state really.


Ignorant, Ill-Educated, Ill-Founded Pot Shots - Over it BIG TIME!

Posted on 29-06-2014 20:15 | By Mrs R

While studying the Treaty of Waitangi, check out Office of Treaty Settlements and learn it's not the Tribunal who settles claims. And shame on you for suggesting the Tribunal is made up of all Maori. Lord forbid this is ludicrously nonsensicle because it would mean those Maori did the unfathomable and got an education on an empty stomach when they should be in prison, or a refuge or queued for a benefit or any other handouts imaginable.Maori have been the subject of Pakeha ridicule, disparagement, and impoverishment ever since Pakeha began to colonise this country hundreds of years ago. Those who criticise the most actually understand the least. You T&J Hill coin the phrase "empty vessels make the most noise”. Your derogatory tirade reveals more about the sort of person that you are than those you stereotype and generalise about. In ‘our' opinion your bad behaviour needs to stop.


Mrs R, hits the nail

Posted on 30-06-2014 19:34 | By robin bell

on the head,big time.It is a sad fact that some Pakeha N.Zrs have been indoctrinated by generational prejudice.They seem to know no better. Groutby sums this up by supporting the views expressed in the above letter,particularly the last three brief paragraphs.Inaccurate,biased and grossly anti Maori.If Maori were jewish this garbage would have stopped years ago. Robin Bell.


Robin Bell

Posted on 30-06-2014 23:55 | By Murray.Guy

If Maori were Jewish this garbage would have stopped years ago. Robin Bell. ... And not just 'this garbage' as you put it!


If Maori were jewish

Posted on 01-07-2014 08:00 | By crazyhorse

Pathetic, How dare you compare treatment of maori by "Kiwi's to the treatment of the jews by nazi, this seems to be the latest technique to try and trigger perceived "white guilt", Mutu, Turia and O'regan use it regularly. Mrs R I am not going to be rude to you but your "education" around the treaty and especially the Waitangi tribunal is typical of what we call "mushroom" people read a few real books starting with travesty at Waitangi, then twisting the treaty, let the sunshine in and fill your life with "truth" and a new outlook as a "NEW ZEALANDER".


Murray Guy,

Posted on 01-07-2014 20:30 | By robin bell

You are far too "thin skinned "to take part in this argument. Stay on the fence where you belong. My fight is with those who spread lies and hatred,via a deliberate campaign to drive a wedge between Maori and Pakeha. If you think that is not happening,I suggest you educate yourself on the subject. Robin Bell.


How Dare you twist,

Posted on 01-07-2014 20:59 | By robin bell

my words crazy-hoss. I repeat If Maori were Jewish,"your garbage would have been stamped out years ago".No reference or implication to "Kiwi's" treating Maori as the nazi's did.Thats your evil mind at work. The filthy language you and a few others use in describing Maori history and culture,is what I refer to. Mrs R is correct in all she says.You on the other hand pander to prejudice even racism.Not one of your so-called "historians,or archaeologists,have a qualification between them. They have been totally discredited as have you.Youv'e been repeating the same crap over and over and gotten nowhere. Robin Bell.


I can't help thinking..

Posted on 02-07-2014 00:28 | By groutby

..that once again the discussion has become totally irrational, as clearly the situation of the Maori many years before the Holocaust occurred is completely missing the point, the Jews had no rights and were slaughtered,... the Mariori,...sorry I meant Maori,had rights offered and accepted by the Crown. Since then, and certainly moreso since the Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975 came into force under a Labour government looking for votes. The issues I commented on written by T & J Hill have been disregarded...again. These are a reality you continue to overlook. So, I ask: Is it reasonable to believe the NZ taxpayer is paying more for welfare, prisons, unemployment,handouts,etc IN PERCENTAGE TERMS PER POPULATION ..for Maori above that of "Non Maori"..because if you really "hand on heart" believe this not to be so, then there really is no moving forward for us at all is there? Just the facts..


ME TWIST BELL??

Posted on 02-07-2014 09:13 | By crazyhorse

Now that's interesting, the new revised payed for to suite the times history and "little stories are coming thicker and faster by the week and I'm twisting your words, comparing Kiwi to "nazi is the latest way seen to trigger "perceived white guilt, you new exactly what you were saying just following the indoctrination from your leaders, who I have named as using this "troughing" technique, John Key even pulled the Sioux indian leader of the maori party up on it, you and the industry scream racist every time some one questions you, it's become a defence mechanism, as for "your" historians, they have been asked countless times to debate their "changes" to our history and have all bar none shot thru like "robbers in the night". Have you heard how B


Groutby attempts

Posted on 02-07-2014 20:07 | By robin bell

to turn the "irrational" into his version of logic. Sorry but prejudice stands in the way. Bruce Moon is not an historian,he is simply a self appointed creative writer. Discredited by mainsream historians. Your reference to the "Maori situation" predating the Jewish holocaust is irrelevant.I never refered to the holocaust,the idiot crazy-hoss did.My reference was to the socially unacceptable race based abuse common in these columns. You may overlook this,but I don't. The last three paragraphs of the above letter,refer to social welfare issues.No connection to the reparations for land stolen from Maori. The choice is simple,spend the money on social improvement,or build one hell of a lot more prisons. Robin Bell.


Accept the things you cannot change...

Posted on 03-07-2014 00:14 | By Mrs R

Crazyhorse - My education of the WT does NOT come from books, it comes from years experience working with Pakeha historians who believe in righting the wrong. So I'm not a "mushroom" in the dark needing to be fed your manure.The sunshine will continue to fill lives of many Maori NZ'rs as the truth continues to prevail via the Tribunal. If you don't like it, put on some shades because the outlook for Maori might get a whole lot brighter. Rants to a newspaper column isn't going to change the reality that the WT exists and Maori will claim what is rightly theirs. Rather than consuming yourselves with hatred why not suggest ways for Maori and non-Maori to co-exist in partnership. Irrespective of ethnicity or beliefs, we all bleed red and our graves will all be 6ft deep when we die.


Robin Bell, are you part of the problem or the cure?

Posted on 03-07-2014 10:00 | By Murray.Guy

You say,.... My fight is with those who spread lies and hatred, via a deliberate campaign to drive a wedge between Maori and Pakeha. If you think that is not happening, I suggest you educate yourself on the subject. Robin Bell. ... I say that your contribution has the appearance of much the same, with the same outcome. I'm rarely a fence sitter, I just choose not to takes sides and forgo truth and or integrity and respect in the process, just to attack another. I have often felt there is a deliberate campaign to drive a wedge between Maori and the balance of our community, or at the very least, a blatant 'don't give a damn'. I have NO hesitation in saying that the responsibility for this sad state of affairs is with a few folk of influence from within our local authorities and Maori, perhaps yourself.


Reasons not blame, groutby

Posted on 03-07-2014 17:18 | By robin bell

but to understand the reasons you need to accept history. Maori top most negative statistics. In the few years since settlements started,education,health,housing has improved.It may not yet be obvious,but Tainui,Ngai Tahu and others have built their assets to over a billion each,whilst gradually improving the position of their people. Many Pakeha scoff at the damage caused by colonisation,concentrating on the material benefits,but it also bought with it marginalisation and despair for many. The myth of "choice" is something many critics buy into,for many choice does not exist. Another example is your reasoning around governmental change. The world changed,driven primarily by social conscience and the U.N. The real question is,does N.Z.reject the positive social benefits settlements have bought,or accept them and create a far more equitable society.I chose the latter.So,I believe do a majority of New Zealanders. Robin Bell.


Murray Guy,

Posted on 04-07-2014 10:44 | By robin bell

I confess Some of what you say is correct.If you recall Peter Dey countered the misinformation put out by Crazy-horse,Murkin(his other ego)Yogi bear etc.He did so in a very ordered way,which I admire.Sadly it has no effect on those whose agenda is to destroy racial harmony and reverse the settlement process.Its not difficult to find all you need by googling the one n.z.foundation,elocal.1law4all etc.Is it worth the effort,do they really pose a threat? I have no idea,one thing I do know Murray,you can't lay the blame on me. I have no problem confronting the "demons" of prejudice.Do you? Robin Bell.


I'M NOT DOING ALL THE CHANGING

Posted on 04-07-2014 16:45 | By crazyhorse

You mean righting the perceived wrong, the wrong's that keep the grievance industry going, the wrong's where Kiwi are compared to nazi. You say years of experience working with Pakeha historians who believe in righting the wrong, just because their views and research "suites" the way you think does not make it right, we have proved on many threads on SunLive the Waitangi tribunal have concocted research to suit head honcho E T Durie admitted so, but your safe, the Waitangi tribunal is a well oiled sealed machine, changing history to suit completely unchallenged by normal NZ law, the latest, a researcher "paid" to come up with the Kereopa saga, he is now a noble misunderstood man of "honour". It amuses me that caption you use, {Accept the things you cannot change}be good if you and others stuck to doing just that!.NZ be a better place.


Waitangi Tribunal

Posted on 05-07-2014 14:41 | By Buddy Mikaere

T and J Hill (shakes head sadly) Breathtaking in their ignorance. The Waitangi Tribunal except in one specialised instance, only has recommendatory powers. The settlement deals happen AFTER a claim is proven and are negotiated between the Crown (the government) and mandated claimant representatives. The Waitangi Tribunal plays no part if the settlement.


Congratulations.

Posted on 05-07-2014 16:52 | By Mary Faith

Congratulations to T and J Hill for voicing so well what 99% of New Zealanders - and Maori among them, think of the current state of affairs and the reverse racism that is taking place in NZ. Is it any wonder the non-Maori are disgruntled and discontent!! If this separatism was taking place in a lot of overseas countries, civil war would be rampant. However we non-Maori are too genteel and civilized to bring matters to a head! Pity!!!


Crazy-hoss,

Posted on 05-07-2014 20:43 | By robin bell

Name one Waitangi Trbunal recommendation you have proven wrong,just one,with your proof. No piking,don't change the subject, and don't ignore this challenge.Proof is all we want,thats proof,catagorical,undeniable proof.And don't go waffling on about the Waitangi Tribunal.We want your proof. Now. Robin Bell.


except in one specialised instance

Posted on 05-07-2014 22:09 | By crazyhorse

Buddy, give us one example of the Waitangi tribunal not getting one of their ""claims""paid out and they are, only claims since the maori party have been running the country, just one??, the Ngai Tahu negotitor chris fiddlyson has been paying out on every thing in front of him. How's it going down town, that wreck has to come off the reef, you going to get the wreck off the reef Buddy. Or are you going to take the "solution" "MANA OR THE TROUGH". To trough or not to trough that is the question???.


NZ LURCHING INTO APARTHEID STATE

Posted on 06-07-2014 12:40 | By crazyhorse

In Parliament , Mr Peters asked Treaty Negotiations Minister Finlayson why some M?ori were able to apply for total property rights over the foreshore and seabed, with most of the decisions being made behind closed doors in Parliament. Mr Peters said this legislation amounts to a programme of "apartheid and separatibeaches and fishing grounds. Fourteen of the claims are being negotiated directly with the Government and both the Minister and claimants are trying to stop High Court actions that question the decisions, see campers always behind closed doors, Bell thinks he is safe as there is no way for anyone to check evidence, research used, or the history, if you don't believe me get on to the Gov't link,http://www.ots.govt.nz/ have a look at the history, ooops sorry I meant lack of it, a lot of the claims settled will have zero information on the process, I WONDER WHY CAMPERS????.


Crazy Horse

Posted on 06-07-2014 15:19 | By Buddy Mikaere

... Still hiding behind a pseudonym I see. Hmph! I'm sorry but your ignorance of the process is simply appalling. That is NOT how the Tribunal works. Furthermore, the Ngai Tahu claims were settled long before Chris Finlayson came along. Yes we are going to do our very best to get the Rena wreck off the reef and we look to the insurers and owners to meet the costs. We look to our claim to the Tribunal for support in having the government enforce the removal notice which they issued in 2011. There is no money in this for our hapu.


MaryFaith,

Posted on 06-07-2014 15:25 | By robin bell

has the Ear of 99% of New Zealanders WOW!! HOW GOOD IS THAT. Perhaps then our mary could explain how 1% are giving her so much grief.Whilst she's at it please explain the term "reverse racism".Surely to have the reverse of something,you must first have,in this case RACISM.Perhaps also explaining how,successive N.Z.governments,comprising about 95% pakeha,could possibly be guilty of the racism,she claims.Don't dissapoint us Mary. Robin Bell.


Buddy

Posted on 07-07-2014 07:18 | By Fonzie

What happened to the demand from Motiti Maori for Rena insurers to pay for an all weather harbour on Motiti which Maori must have control of as voiced on TV?


No proof then,

Posted on 07-07-2014 08:41 | By robin bell

Crazy= Baker.No surprise there.Your particular brand of extreme nationalism,and racial prejudice does'nt opperate on truth or fact.Rather on inuendo and suggestive clap-trap.All the facts and truth of history are there,you of course reject them,because there is no advantage for you. Robin Bell.


Buddy Mikaere

Posted on 07-07-2014 09:17 | By crazyhorse

Quote Buddy Mikaere,{THERE IS NO MONEY IN THIS FOR OUR HAPU.} I'm pleased to hear that Buddy, good luck and all the best with getting that wreck off the reef. ,{THERE IS NO MONEY IN THIS FOR OUR HAPU.} ,{THERE IS NO MONEY IN THIS FOR OUR HAPU.}


Robin Bell

Posted on 07-07-2014 11:08 | By Mary Faith

In reply to the two questions asked of me ....1. Reverse racism(or discrimination) is a condition in which discrimination against a dominant racial group in favour of a minority group in society has taken place. 2. The successive NZ governments pander to Maori demands in order to get their vote! I am surprised you didn't already know the answers and had to ask me to explain it to you. Now you know!


Robin Bell

Posted on 07-07-2014 11:46 | By Mary Faith

Sorry Robin - I omitted replying to your first question to me. How 1% of the population are giving me(and 99% others)so much grief? Another easy question - Maori are 15% of the population. Only a small proportion of Maori - less than 1%, are the radicals and activists who are causing all the trouble in making these outrageous demands. You obviously do not listen to talk back and I would think that your friends and associates, knowing your views, would not dare to tell you how they really feel to avoid and all out disagreement with you.


Mary

Posted on 07-07-2014 13:55 | By YOGI BEAR

The correct census portion is 6% not 15%


No money for the hapu

Posted on 07-07-2014 14:06 | By Buddy Mikaere

That's right Crazyhorse (still hiding I see...) Pleased to have your support for our stance. As for your mate Fonzie - Motiti did NOT demand an all weather berthing facility for the island - that was offered by the owners and insurers - BUT we had to drop all opposition to their plans to dump the wreck. Get your facts right and while you are at it find the courage to put your name to your comments.


Yogi Bear

Posted on 07-07-2014 20:34 | By Mary Faith

This is copied from NZ Stats. web site. "There are now 682,200 people in the country who identify as M?ori, out of the total New Zealand population of 4,433,000 as at 30 June 2012, according to Statistics NZ's latest estimates. M?ori make up 15.4 percent of the population, up from 15.1 percent in 2002. That rate of change is slower than in the previous decade (1992-2002), when the M?ori population grew from 13.6 percent to 15.1 percent of the total".


Anonimity is unfortunately a necessity

Posted on 07-07-2014 23:29 | By Murray.Guy

To better ensure 'freedom of speech' anonymity opportunities are important, but sadly reflect on us as an intolerant, intimidating and bullying society. I personally try to avoid debate at the personal level (fail sometimes) and express opinion, share thoughts without 'fear or favour'. BUT the fear is always there to varying degrees, knowing that the moment I make comment that might conflict, however slightly, with key spokespeople, advocates within an organisation, a grouping, you become 'the enemy'. Nowhere is this more evident than within the confines of Tauranga City Council and associated organisations. In regard the Waitangi Tribunal, I think the Government and community need to address it's role and function lest this 'animal evolve into an ever exploding beast' that appears to be hell bent of providing a maori specific advocacy justice body' for every grievance from parking tickets to illegal land grabs.


MORE HALF TRUTH'S!!

Posted on 08-07-2014 09:49 | By crazyhorse

A BILLION DOLLARS IN ASSETS, BUT LITTLE CHARITY, ABOUT 9% TO "CHARITY". Waikato-Tainui's 2014 report boasts assets of $1.1-billion and distributions of $55-million over 10 years but it is over to anyone interested to work out that charitable distributions of $6.1-million over the past year only make up about nine percent of the tribal corporation's consolidated net profit of $70.9-million. It is interesting to note that in April this year Tainui Group Holdings bought 5.4 million shares in Genesis Energy when the Government sold down 49 percent of its stake in the company. Treaty settlement income remains a substantial part of Waikato-Tainui's cashflow. The 2014 report lists receipts from customers as $75.2-million and settlement income of $11-million, while the 2013 report lists receipts from customers as $61.8-million and settlement income of $71.039-million. READ ALL ABOUT THE HALF TRUTHS AND REMEMBER CAMPERS THEY "PAY NO TAX". http://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com.au/2014/07/mike-butler-billion-in-assets-but.html


Yogi Bear

Posted on 08-07-2014 15:41 | By Mary Faith

For your information Yogi - copied from WWW.Stats.govt.NZ website. "There are now 682,200 people in the country who identify as M?ori, out of the total New Zealand population of 4,433,000 as at 30 June 2012, according to Statistics NZ's latest estimates. M?ori make up 15.4 percent of the population, up from 15.1 percent in 2002. That rate of change is slower than in the previous decade (1992-2002), when the M?ori population grew from 13.6 percent to 15.1 percent of the total".


Mary faith,I thank you

Posted on 08-07-2014 20:37 | By robin bell

for your "answers". However you are being a little "cute". You do not speak for 99% of N.Zrs. Maori settlements for stolen land,is supported by most Maori,and very many Pakeha. Your claim that 1% of Maori are holding our government to ransom,is disingenuous in the extreme. It simply fits the desperate "world" of cliched (macron over the "e") politics you chose to live in. Robin Bell.


Murray,anonimity can

Posted on 09-07-2014 11:03 | By robin bell

never reflect "freedom of speech".To suggest otherwise is to defeat,all of the principles of democracy. An anonymous contibutor is limited to "whispering in dark corners"or worse.Your reference to bullying is apt.We all should have the courage of our convictions, win or lose. If you "fear" your opinion is in conflict with established thought,in any organisation,perhaps that's even more reason to express it openly. You trivialise the need for the Waitangi Tribunal,by making reference to parking tickets. I suggest its that kind of disrespect,that is the basis of many of the anonymous comments we suffer. Robin Bell.


Crazyhorse continues,

Posted on 10-07-2014 11:37 | By robin bell

his irrelevacies,this time copying from a blog by ultra right wing extremist Mike Butler. Tainui like all Charitable Trusts have by law (CLOSELY WATCHED BY INLAND REVENUE)to distribute funds via education,health,housing etc.thereby easing the burden of tax payers. Investment insures the long term viability of such trusts. If Tainui and others were to squander the settlements,no one gains,Crazy-hoss would just love that. Perhaps Butler,Baker and all the "kings" men,could investigate some of the Pakeha Charities,as a gesture of "impartiality." In a "pigs ear" they will. Robin Bell.


Embittered Much?

Posted on 10-07-2014 13:39 | By HappyBay

Mary Faith, you are presumptuous indeed. Your views do not align with mine or anyone I know. Your comment: "If this separatism was taking place in a lot of overseas countries, civil war would be rampant. However we non-Maori are too genteel and civilized to bring matters to a head! Pity!!!", is appalling. You wish for civil war? Have a cup of tea and a lie down. Why are the rest of the supporters of this letter so afraid of? That is how I picture them, old and afraid.


To Mary Faith

Posted on 10-07-2014 23:52 | By Jitter

According to Stats NZ the figures in the census last year show the percentage of the "Maori" population as 14.9% in one document I have read and 14.1% in a second. So the "Maori" population according to those figures is on a slow decline. Again according to a projection done by Stats NZ the "Maori" population will be down to 10% by 2026 and the Asian and Pacifica up to 14% each approximately. The balance will be European and others.


TO MARY FAITH&JITTER

Posted on 11-07-2014 08:59 | By crazyhorse

[1974 Maori Affairs Amendment Act]. Before 1974, a Maori was defined as someone who was half-caste or more, through intermarriage it was increasingly difficult for many Maori to work out , precisely, what their proportion of Maori blood, if any. The Maori Affairs Amendment Act 1974 "REDEFINED" Maori as " person of the Maori race of New Zealand includes any blonde haired "descendant" of 1/322 cast or what ever,This made it possible to widened the "definition" of Maori, . Data from the 1996 census used to examine the impact that these new definitions brought in by Matiu Rata were having on the number of people officially categorised as Maori, found that instead of the 273,693 who indicated they were Maori-only, with the new "amendment act" the population of maori "DOUBLED OVER NIGHT"" to 580,374, SLASH OF A PEN THE TROUGHING INDUSTRY GOT 100% MORE "CLIENTS"


A good saying

Posted on 11-07-2014 09:10 | By YOGI BEAR

In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm and three or more is a government. John Adams


Thanks Crazyhorse

Posted on 11-07-2014 12:17 | By Mary Faith

... for this interesting information. Cunning aren't they! The saying "the pen is mightier than the sword" is well illustrated in this case!


Toughing industry

Posted on 11-07-2014 13:03 | By YOGI BEAR

Yes, clear that the game was to expand the "needy" to as many as possible, that justifies the existence on the WTF industry in Wellington today that costs NZ Taxpayers about $1.5bn pa. VERY lame excuse and at best flimsy.


Interesting

Posted on 11-07-2014 16:52 | By Jitter

In an interim report from the undemocratically appointed and heavily biased towards "Maori" Constitutional Review Panel they published the following Stats NZ figures from 2006 prior to the last Census. Thefigures quoted in my previous comment were based on the 2013 Census)Pacifica 10% (2026 projected 7%) Asian 6% (2026 Projected 10%) Maori 16% (2026 Projected 15%) European and others 70% (2026 Projected 77%). The Constitutional Review Panel was stacked in favour of "Maori" by the Maori Party ie 12 members made up follows - 5 "Maori", 3 known "Maori sympathisers, 1 Pacifica, 1 Asian, 2 European and others. Based on population the panel should have been made as follows -2 "Maori", 1 Pacifica,1 Asian, 8 others including those of European descent. Therefore any recommendations made by the panel will be challenged in court as biased and undemocratic.


CONSTITUTIONAL REVIEW

Posted on 11-07-2014 21:34 | By crazyhorse

Please remember this is suppose to have been a group made up of 12 average kiwi people. prof John Burrows-retired judge, Tipene O'regan Ngai tahu negotiator , Peter Chin lawyer mayor, Deborah Coddington delusional propagandist (sort of like a born again christian!)? Michael Cullen Tuwharetoa negotiator??????,John Luxton done a bit of fundraising with Tuku Morgan in the Waikato ???,Bernice Mene ex silver fern all round nice person, Dr Leonie Pihana maori activist???,Hinurwa Poutu maori activist???,Prof Linda Tuhiwai Smith maori activist in university studies?????,Peter Tennant mayor of New plymouth, and I will save the best for last "Dr Ranganui Walker maori activist and member of the Waitangi tribunal", once again democracy NZ style!!.


To Crazyhorse

Posted on 12-07-2014 14:09 | By Jitter

You have got it in one. However I would not say it was NZ democracy but democracy as the "Maori" party would like to see it. Lets see what our separatist, reverse racist commentators have to say.


@ CrazyHorse

Posted on 12-07-2014 15:33 | By YOGI BEAR

Your point is indeed made and clearly so by the list. The only thing I could possible add to that is that you have been entirely way to modest about reciting the virtues of the members of the panel as named.


I think

Posted on 15-07-2014 15:22 | By awaroa

Crazy, Mary, Jitter & Yogi should get together for a tea party..


It wouldn't work awaroa,

Posted on 15-07-2014 21:33 | By robin bell

Before long they would all fall asleep with boredom.


AWAROA

Posted on 16-07-2014 09:10 | By crazyhorse

HOPE YOU ENJOY SEEING YOUR "FUTURE KING" IN ACTION, SIT BACK AND BE "PROUD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ggwyYsLB2k


Racial Discrimination at its worst!

Posted on 16-07-2014 15:13 | By Mary Faith

I have just heard on the radio national news that the body of the murdered Opotiki man is being taken to the prison where his father is an inmate - so that dad can say goodbye to son. Setting a precedent or what!! Do you really think Robin Bell - that any such action would be afforded to any race other than Maori? Honest 'yes' or 'no' reply please!


Crystal Ball gazing,

Posted on 16-07-2014 15:55 | By robin bell

Is something I leave to you and your friends Mary. In my experience there is rarely a "yes or no" answer to the problems society faces. I honestly don't know the answer to your question. My guess is that given similar circumstances,similar requests,there may be a similar outcome. Far more concerning to me Mary,is your very obvious objection,to what is clearly a humanitarian act. Are you so devoid of compassion? Yes or no please. Robin Bell.


No Surprise

Posted on 16-07-2014 17:01 | By Jitter

The reverse racists are now coming out of the woodwork again. Neither Awaroa or Robin Bell can see or are prepared to admit that the Constitutional Review Panel wss heavily biased in favour of "Maori". But what can you expect when the "Maori" Party was involved. If selected democratically and based on population percentages it would have been formed as I suggested not as though "Maori" are the majority population group in NZ. You only have to read the panel's final report to see the overwhelming bias in favour of "Maori. Yes "Maori" must have a say in the future of NZ but nowhere near the amount as recommended. Talk about the tail wagging the dog.


I too have waited,

Posted on 17-07-2014 08:40 | By robin bell

"jitter" as I've said before,reverse racism can only occur in an atmosphere of racism. You represent that.That you bring up the C.R.Panel again is simply an expression of your desperation. Maori are determined,never to be marginalised, ever again. As a european I support them in that,If thats reverse racism ,so be it. People are not stupid "jitter" they can easily identify who are racist and who are not. Robin Bell.


Compassion or Common Sense?

Posted on 17-07-2014 09:28 | By Mary Faith

Ah Robin, Robin ... do you really think that any person who dies and has a parent in jail - that entitles that prisoner to have the body brought to the jail for them to say goodbye?! We are talking criminals here - they have NO rights - compassion doesn't come into it! Who is paying for this body transportation - no doubt the taxpayer again? I guess it is just another Maori 'special'!


In Mary's narrow

Posted on 17-07-2014 10:32 | By robin bell

world prisoners have no "rights". Once again Mary is out of touch with facts. Far too many "rights to mention here,but the relevent one is regular contact with family. Prisoners are able to apply for compassionate leave for funerals. However they have to pay for transport and security. Not all can,and often the dead relative may be deemed too distant. Visitations are a different thing. Dead or alive visitors make thier own way. Stop making a fool of yourself Mary. Robin Bell.


Educated

Posted on 17-07-2014 14:04 | By Mary Faith

Robin - I have to bow to your superior knowledge regarding prisoners and how the prison system works. I have never been personally involved with either - thankfully!


MaryFaith,

Posted on 18-07-2014 11:02 | By robin bell

I appreciate your acknowledgement. A small comfort in a long battle. One thing is for sure Mary,had you been one of the three male musketeers,yogi,crazy or "jitter",no such comment would have been forthcoming. Such is life. Robin Bell.


Robin Bell

Posted on 18-07-2014 17:22 | By Jitter

The problem with the sons body being taken to the prison for the father to grieve over is if this had been a family of another culture it would have been laughed out of court. Once again a privilege that no other culture in NZ has. If I am wrong tell me where this is written in the Justice or Prison Service legislation or Policy, I would love to read it.


Racists

Posted on 18-07-2014 20:43 | By Jitter

Robin Bell you said people are not stupid and can easily identify racists. Straight from the horses mouth. It takes one to know one so you should know exactly what it is like.


In the court of,

Posted on 19-07-2014 10:43 | By robin bell

public opinion I take my chances "jitter" That's why I use my given name,unlike you.The Corrections D'pt have a flexible policy,in emergency situations.Your claim of privelige for Maori is pathetic. You simply have no idea (again) what your talking about.It may well be unlikely that people of other cultures,would make such a request. What I do know,is that reasonable requests,are met with understanding and compassion. Values you are clearly incapable of. My advise to you "jitter" is,stop trying to portray yourself as a victim. It's demeaning and child like. Robin Bell.


Robin Bell

Posted on 20-07-2014 17:43 | By Jitter

I am not portraying myself as a victim but am commenting on what I know. I know of many cases of prisoners of various ethnicities being given leave to attend a family funeral but never of a body being taken to a prison for a relative to view. This is a new one to me especially as the hearse had a Police escort. It is interesting that you state "You have no idea what you are talking about" which you have also stated about other contributors. I would also make the same comment about you in many cases as you seem to make it up as you go along.


I call your bluff,

Posted on 20-07-2014 20:25 | By robin bell

"jitter" Feel free to show me up,with an example of me "making things up"No reneging now "jitter". The whole basis of your position and that of your supporters,is one of victimisation,as you see it. You now seem to be complaining about a Police initiative,in a preemptive,sensible exercise to escort the hearse. The fact that some things are new to you,doesn't surprise me one bit. Show us all where it is written,that a "body" may NOT visit a N.Z. prison,to be viewed by a grieving parent. Robin Bell.


Whakapapa

Posted on 24-07-2014 20:54 | By R1Squid

Kahu Kuraiti (1774) is an Ancestor of mine. I don't ask for anything.


Making things up?

Posted on 25-07-2014 21:32 | By Crash test dummies

That's hard to know where to start, easier to say what isn't ..... "nil" .... Yes robin I know that is "racist" just like anything factual you see or hear .... You disagree on auto pilot right!


Jaffa, I thank you,

Posted on 26-07-2014 09:48 | By robin bell

for your rather pathetic assistance for "jitter".He certainly needs it. Factuality is not something you are big on,any of you. Crass insult,suggestive dishonesty and arrogance, is more your "bag" Robin Bell.


Robin Bell

Posted on 26-07-2014 17:09 | By Mary Faith

I suggest Robin that you have a very biased view on racial issues in NZ. With a Maori wife and yourself coming from England you obviously do not know how passionate we NZ citizens are about racial equality and democracy in our country. I (a 4th generation kiwi), like you, have a Maori partner and feel more qualified than you when commenting on things that concern all NZ citizens regardless of race.


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