Support for museum gains momentum

Tauranga Mayor Greg Brownless during celebrations for International Museum Day on Thursday. Photos and video: Rosalie Liddle Crawford.

Click the image above to watch the video

There was a strong sense of momentum about the development of a museum for Tauranga when an enthusiastic crowd of supporters gathered at Tauranga Art Gallery on Thursday to celebrate International Museum Day.

“We've been here 16 years and it's the first time I've ever felt that things are starting to come together,” says Adrienne von Tunzelmann who attended the event.

“I actually do feel there is a real momentum gathering finally in Tauranga.”

The Trustees of the Tauranga Moana Museum Trust hosted the evening, which provided opportunity for museum supporters to catch up over refreshments and canapes. Museum experts addressed the audience, talking about modern museums and their relevance and value for regional cities.

Emily Loughnan, Creative Director from Click Suite in Wellington, spoke on the use of technology in a modern museum.

“Tonight I'm talking about bringing history alive by using technology and telling great stories. I work with museums, libraries and galleries and help them translate their stories into digital format and to make them engaging for audiences.

“That's really my thing. We're based in Wellington but work with people all around the country.”

Emily, who does a lot of her work with Te Papa, flew back to Wellington immediately following the Tauranga event, as she was due to attend an exhibition opening the following day.

Ben Barraud, who was set designer and second unit art director for The Hobbit, is now Head of Design at Te Papa. Responsible for the design of Te Papa's Gallipoli exhibition, he spoke on his experience with setting up such an important display.

Cate Hlavac, a Tauranga Museum Trustee, spoke to the future direction and planning for a museum for Tauranga.

“I think it's progressing really strongly as we'd expected,” says Tauranga Moana Museum Trust co-chair Kelly Barclay.

“Council have signalled they've got to do a lot of due process and they're keeping to their timetable. At this stage we have to wait for them to come through but I think there's a real groundswell of support and a feeling of need for it.

“After the Banksy exhibition here in the Art Gallery there was a feeling and interest around town of how cultural activities can really enhance Tauranga and make it an exciting place to be. There were queues out the door here at the Art Gallery and I think a museum would really complement that and provide a strong focal point for the cultural community.

“It's also an economic community. We're encouraging people to support the museum and the Council in going forward. And investing in what is really a civic community and an asset. We're also aware that there is central Government funding available and we're confident that they will come to the party with a significant contribution. The time is right to capture that funding.”

Tauranga City Councillor Larry Baldock says he is really pleased with the feedback they are getting, “that the time has come for Tauranga,”

“People are realising and supporting the fact that we need a museum. I'm really excited about what's going to happen, and that we're going to get there. It's going to be fantastic. Because we've waited so long we're going to get something really special.”

“There's scars on my back from the last museum project that I supported on the waterfront,” joked Terry Molloy, another supporter of a museum for Tauranga. “They've just healed now so I'm ready for the next round.”

“The opening of the tidal stairs was just magic,” says Adrienne. “We've been down to the tidal stairs three times now and there's just a whole lot of different people coming into town, very intergenerational. There's grandparents with grandchildren. A lot more multi-cultural. What really started it was the Hairy Maclary statues.”

Mayor Greg Brownless is pragmatic.

“A lot of people are talking about the museum,” says Greg, “But it's a matter of turning the words into some sort of action and for that to happen there's quite a lot to sort out. Let's see if all the people who have promised money actually deliver and we should be able to get something going.”


Terry Molloy, Ann Pankhurst and Adrienne von Tunzelmann.


Ben Barraud and Emily Loughnan.


Viv Hill, Harry Hill, Annie Lewis and Tony Macartney.



105 Comments

@Miss Adventure

Posted on 09-06-2017 14:00 | By Papamoaner

What do you mean by "Leeches? Nobody said museums are free these days. Properly operated they can become self sufficient and many do. What a miserable narrow view on life you have. People like you don't give a toss about the next generation, or improving the education and outlook for the kids who will soon be adults. You only think of yourselves and your miserable pennys. Even if your rates did increase by 10%, that's a very small comparison to going to the gym, or for some, smoking tobacco, and less than one tenth of most income taxes. Don't even mention the cost of running your car or your two cars. Sadly, our culture is getting meaner, less compassionate, insular and selfish. I don't mean to be rude, but your views epitomise those traits. Leeches indeed!

Leeches line up for handouts

Posted on 08-06-2017 14:12 | By MISS ADVENTURE

That is all that this is. All Tauranga Ratepayers/citizens will be burdened with tens of million in debt, and mega millions annually added to rates for a monument to grandious stupidity should this rort continue. I would see a 10% rise in rates as a direct result nd nothing will be gained from it.

Marketing savvy

Posted on 29-05-2017 18:07 | By Papamoaner

How about we build a picturesque walkway between a cruise liner berthing wharf alongside the bridge, and the Strand/Wharf street area, so passengers walk through the cemetery, then have to pass by the new museum/library on Cliff road to get to the CBD? Hell, it's only a few hundred metres if that. We have enough technical savvy designers to make the museum too tempting to ignore. Not many other places in NZ have this kind of potential.

The baitshed aquarium museum

Posted on 28-05-2017 17:02 | By Papamoaner

To all those folks who I hope are following this lively debate, but for whatever reason don't participate, I urge you all to google the above title. Their website has some quite moving photos of very small children and adults alike, working in the aquarium with wet arms and facial expressions of focus and pleasure. I was surprised to see that climate change is bringing tentacled species like octopus up to potentially become near sole survivors and thus rulers of the oceans (shades of Jules Verne?) What kind of miserable small minded bean-counters would want to deprive our young people of an opportunity to have a museum in Tauranga that could do stuff like this?. It is so important! It will certainly be my first port of call on my next visit.

@R.Bell

Posted on 28-05-2017 16:43 | By Papamoaner

I can't really improve on your answer to NZer. It was a pointless question anyway. Wainknot has (or says) he has "left the debate" I think a couple of well researched answers, and a curly question he couldn't answer, was "quicksand" to him. Pushed into a corner, he folded, possibly embarrassed himself. They are falling over like flies and the debate is about due to fizzle out given that nobody has any real tangible answers as to why they think we shouldn't have a museum. I'm disappointed in Waiknot because I wasted a fair bit of time doing his research for him, not realising he had fabricated the evidence. Bah humbug!

Enough is Enough

Posted on 28-05-2017 15:24 | By waiknot

Papamoaner, I'm out of this debate?? As I'm not sure a debate can survive your quick sand? I just hope you don't really believe what you spout

@Nzer

Posted on 28-05-2017 14:23 | By Papamoaner

As previously indicated, bring it on! But it's unlikely. The museum/library will probably proceed, sooner rather than later. We are beyond delay tactics now

Be careful what you ask for n.zer

Posted on 28-05-2017 13:06 | By R. Bell

Referendum are designed to poll the electorate. the electorate currently out number the rate payers in total. It is for council to decide based on a thorough unbiased assessment of ALL OPTIONS. Robin Bell.

Waiknot,

Posted on 28-05-2017 11:23 | By R. Bell

Your comment regarding Don McInnon requires no reply. He is correct in stating Museums are not for profit. However as papamoaner suggests a modern museum complex, complete with interactive displays, overseas exhibitions on loan, perhaps modern art and traditional Maori and Pakeha cultural displays, restaurants and shops can close the gap between profit or loss.It is all being done around the world as we speak. As stated, profit cannot be measured in dollars alone. Robin Bell.

Referendum

Posted on 28-05-2017 10:34 | By NZer

Would Papamoaner and Robin agree that really the only way to settle this would be to have a referendum at the next council elections? Mean while sunlive could run another poll about the same issue to see before hand. What are your thoughts?

@Captainhottie

Posted on 28-05-2017 10:15 | By Papamoaner

Indeed! I too reckon that is the best location for the museum. A group of Tauranga architects have gone public saying they would favour that site too, so it's looking quite exciting. The reason I favour it is because it's near the water - potential for later marine biology expansions to the museum. I don't know why they haven't done that at TePapa because it's right on the water, but I am told there is a tiny wee marine museum in an old concrete bait shed at the Island bay fishing village in Wellington where the community is largely Italian. A friend of mine who lives near it told me the queues are pretty much daily out the door and across the rocks. I intend to get down there asap and have a look.

@Waiknot

Posted on 28-05-2017 09:22 | By Papamoaner

My god, you are now moving the goal posts my friend. NOW you are saying McKinnon said it on RADIO, (because you think it is unverifiable). You deny the word "inherently" but here is your statement verbatim (by cut and paste) from your earlier post;- QUOTE= " Earlier I mentioned Don McKinnons view that museums are inherently not profit making enterprises"=UNQUOTE. To think you had the temerity to suggest I was dishonest with my views- that's a bit rich old chap. Can you please now provide the date of your alleged radio interview so I can search the audio file at NATRAD. No more sidestepping, there's a good chap, lest your credibility diminish further into oblivion.

@Waiknot - after even more research

Posted on 27-05-2017 18:31 | By Papamoaner

Waiknot, you have wasted my time. I took you at your word, researched your claims, and found nothing. You accused myself and Robin Bell of ignoring your Don McKinnon analogy, but it turned out to be hot air, or at best sleight of hand. I have read that Sir Don is very pro museums and that he cited the Auckland museum as attracting increasing numbers of visitors from overseas and locally, citing 830,000 visitors per year (a few years ago now), and increasing. On reflection I now believe you were merely name-dropping with the McKinnon thing. Your claim that he knows more than the rest of us together comes up looking like exaggeration. A farmer with 200 cows doesn't always know more about cows than the sharemilker down the road with 50 cows.

Papamoaner

Posted on 27-05-2017 18:17 | By waiknot

Just because you can not find it, does not mean it does not exist. It was verbal radio live. Secondly you have twisted my statement I never said "inherently not for profit"" They may we'll be intended for profit but reality suggests they generally don't achieve this goal. Very different, however being honest and saying the museum is not likly to be profitable and budgeting accordingly would be honest and prudent. Listening to Papamoaner and R Bell I'm reminded of the story about 3 little pigs. Your museums financials will fall just like the straw house that can not withstand the financial Wolves of reality. And by the way I'd love a museum just one built of brick.

Yes to museum

Posted on 27-05-2017 16:35 | By Captain Hottie

I used to think nah, waste of ratepayers' money etc. But then I saw the crowds at the art gallery and at the tidal steps and realised yes, Tauranga residents are thirsty for culture. There's only so many times you can go round/up the Mount and half the time it's been closed off anyway. No wonder cruise ship visitors hop straight on a bus to Rotorua. Build it on Cliff Road and then build a walkway across from Dive Crescent so ppl can access it from the waterfront. Tauranga has so much potential but it is being held hostage by the NIMBY or NWMY (Not WIth My Rates) brigades.

@Astex

Posted on 27-05-2017 14:33 | By Papamoaner

I agree. Auckland and Wellington paid some costs to have obsolete warships sunk as diving wrecks. We got this one for free. Should have just pumped the bunker oil out, removed dangerous bits, and left it there.Getting off topic here, but hang on a minute - an underwater museum to compliment our new museum? SCUBA instruction courses to boost museum revenue? Bring it on!

We may have missed the goose

Posted on 27-05-2017 13:18 | By astex

I can't help wondering, with all the grumbling about ratepayers costs for everything, whether we missed a goose that could have laid a golden egg at Tauranga. The cost of clearing the Rena so far is about $500M and we have next to nothing to show for it. Had we negotiated a "leave it there" deal with a donation of that amount to the TCC how much different could things be now with roading, museums, CBD etc?

Thank you yet again papamoaner.

Posted on 27-05-2017 13:04 | By R. Bell

Council reflects the mood of its electorate. It is true that there was ( in years gone by ) no appetite for a stand alone museum, Ratepayers polled showed a 49% for result as previously correctly stated by me. This was deemed insufficient support. We all know ( except N.Zer and angels ) that the mood AND circumstances have changed dramatically. I agree with all you say describing our two resident clowns. N.Zer in particular sees himself as a one man wrecking ball, never works, but hey! he's entitled to try. Robin Bell.

@NZer

Posted on 27-05-2017 12:26 | By Papamoaner

With reference to your claim that Robin was wrong and Angels was right, it seems you have not actually bothered to read the material yourself. If you had, you would know that Robin refers to ratepayer's stance, and Angels refers to councillor's stance. Big difference! How many councillors at a meeting? With reference to your assertion that Robin's mouth contains his foot, I observe that you could by all indications, accommodate many more feet than just one, so I have to admit you are well ahead of him in that department. I don't presume to answer for Robin, but felt invited to comment since you included me in your post.

@NZer

Posted on 27-05-2017 10:40 | By Papamoaner

R.Bell's arguments are consistently objective and accurate. But we have to agree to disagree on that. I for one am VERY confident that if Tauranga had a public referendum right now, the majority vote would be for a museum/library centre. Even now, as we speak, a ground swell of approval is emerging among ratepayers who have created what they call a "wall of shame" in objection to council procrastination over these issues, as reported in the print media this week. This is very unusual and speaks volumes about a growing majority that normally remain silent on stuff they agree with. Ratepayers usually only overtly speak out when they disagree with issues. That hasn't happened here. So what does that tell you folks? About time to see the big picture?

Robin

Posted on 27-05-2017 09:26 | By NZer

Your foot is firmly in your mouth. You said every survey taken has shown a majority for a museum. Have you read the artical that Angels quotes. It seems that you a very wrong again. And your mate Papamoaner cant seem to bring himself to admit it either......

@Angels

Posted on 26-05-2017 20:13 | By Papamoaner

I fell off my chair laughing at your post where you seem to always think today's museums are like yesterdays. Especially where you mentioned an "old mare's dress (sic) used to meet the queen." Hell, I hope you didn't embarrass us by forgetting to curtsy !

Museum Governance review 2013

Posted on 26-05-2017 20:04 | By Papamoaner

I urge you all to read the above document online. It is balanced on pros and cons of both sides of the debate, from expensive ratepayer subsidy in big centres to peanuts in others. For example, $20 per ratepayer for the 2012 financial year in Taupo, and several times that in main cities. Still peanuts compared to running your car. When calculating your car costs for comparison, allow about 1 dollar per kM, based on the gov't public service reimbursement rate for private mileage. Meanwhile, let's work on some lateral thinking ideas to make this museum the pioneer of self sufficiency - Yeah, we can do it with some positive thinking! How about building the museum half over the water so the kids can do marine stuff. Did you know Paua spores fly large distances through the water like helicopters?

@Waiknot

Posted on 26-05-2017 18:59 | By Papamoaner

I have looked online into Don McKinnon's museum involvements, and as you said, he has considerable experience. It is quite heavy reading, so time consuming. That said, you appear to have misquoted him. I can find no reference to him saying museums are "inherently not for profit" nor anything like that, but I did find a list of museum functions, (before his time) and one of them says museums are not profit making enterprises. Your insertion of the word "inherent" is misleading because nowhere does it say museums MUST NOT make a profit. In fact they say ratepayers normally make up the difference between revenue and cost. (Taupo museum = $20 per rateable property in 2012). I stand by my assertion that a well run museum could become self sufficient in time.

@Dumbkopf2`

Posted on 26-05-2017 17:12 | By Papamoaner

Sorry if I sound rude mate, but you are like a badly behaved parent on the sideline of a kids sports field, yelling expletives but contributing nothing to the general debate one way or the other. If you have nothing objective to say, stop diluting the debate! I suppose if I were to answer your question in like tone, my answer would be "it depends on the size of the choir in the loft" I hope the inference is not lost on you.

What visitors will pay???

Posted on 26-05-2017 14:43 | By waiknot

Sorry Papamoaner you live in a different reality. You have rose coloured glasses that ignore reality in favour of supporting your pet project. Again you draw totally unrealistic comparisons. Weta Work Shops have major global blockbuster movies underscoring there attraction and hence price. Tauranga regional museum is and won't be in the same league. Your suggestion of self sufficiency is misleading and verging on dishonest and the sort of claptrap I fear from council. We need honest expectations. Earlier I mentioned Don McKinnons view that museums are inherently not profit making enterprises. Interesting that you and R Bell never addressed that statement, Don McKinnon knows more than all of us combined about financing museums. Don't give me the rubbish about social benefits, yes I see them but cold hard cash is required to fund these things no matter how nice to have they are.

At last a lucid comment from angels,

Posted on 26-05-2017 13:10 | By R. Bell

but sadly inaccurate. I have never claimed to be in a majority. I have never claimed that council favour a solely ratepayer funded museum. In fact if they did I would oppose it. I have never claimed Ratepayer associations support a museum, that is your spin. What I said was, as read on line, they generally support the civic centre project, including amenities ( which is what a museum is ) Providing they are not fully funded by ratepayers. I suggest you take time to read the above article, in particular the last paragraph. We have a very pragmatic Mayor, I for one trust him and his councilors to make the right move. Good luck to them. Robin Bell.

Mr bell

Posted on 26-05-2017 11:58 | By Angels

You are in the minority's. Less tha 2 years ago and in 2006 it was decided there was no support to go forward. Go to sunlive addition5 June 2015 page 4 left hand column. You will see council unanimously voted against going forward. Told the people seek private funding.Mr,bell you should be a politition as you speak a tiny fraction of fact then change it to what you want. You tell me to do research read the above. In the last 2 years it's the same only s few want the museum

Not worlds apart

Posted on 26-05-2017 09:25 | By Angels

The problem in tauranga is the lack of respect to the ratepayers. We have a very few in favour of the museum, but because they run in the upper class ( so to speak) they get heard and published. When talking to the rest of the city ordinary people, we don,t want to be burdened with another huge debt and liability every year till we all die and still will continue to haunt the ratepayers forever. The minority's seem to get there way these days in life. See that some are thinking of a few children to see a 1/2 rate museum. To go and see an old mayors dress she wore to meet the queen is such a great historical event, I,m sure the young kids would thrilled??? The money each ratepayer saves will be enough to cover the cost to see a proper museum in AucklandorWellington.

Example of What visitors will pay

Posted on 26-05-2017 08:53 | By Papamoaner

Probably NZ's leading interactive museum is Weta Workshop. ( I haven't been there yet). Entry prices range from $45 to $145 depending on what you want to see and do. It is evidently very well patronised. Tauranga could have that too. A well designed and presented museum could be self-sufficient in time, thus no ongoing cost to ratepayers but big benefits. Unlike the old museums, modern museums constantly change, evolve, and keep up with new things happening. NZ is now the first nation to launch a private space rocket - perfect interactive display material for our museum, to help kids figure out how it all works, and what potential future opportunities might lure them. Beats sniffing glue in a hoodie eh!

As usual papamoaner,

Posted on 26-05-2017 08:49 | By R. Bell

you sums things up admirably. There is absolutely no point in trying to understand angels gobbledegook. For me the rapidly changing circumstance, with council now calling for partners of interest in developing the city centre, and probable amenities complex, is the only thing worth concentrating on. I stand by my factual references to the only meaningful survey taken by council,showing a majority for a museum, 49% for 30.8% against 19.6% undecided 80% agreeing that 1/2 of the cost should come from sources other than rates. Similarly my reference to various Ratepayer Associations in support, providing funding partners share costs. Nzer seems to think this is a game of tennis with winners and losers. The only winners will be the people of Tauranga. As for losers, well we'll always have them I guess. Cheers Robin Bell.

white elephant

Posted on 26-05-2017 08:41 | By dumbkof2

what part of we dont want it do they not understand

Posted on 25-05-2017 21:36 | By Papamoaner

Reported in the news media today. Worth hopping over to the mount for a look. A group of concerned citizens (ratepayers?) have got a display together on this, saying that "Tauranga's reputation for dragging the chain to build civic amenities that other New Zealand cities took for granted has emerged in revealing interviews" They have called their display "The wall of shame" Pretty strong language I should think. It's encouraging to know that wheels are turning in the background. I can feel a museum coming on!

@NZer

Posted on 25-05-2017 19:12 | By Papamoaner

I don't think so pilgrim. By the way, do you have anything to contribute to this debate On Topic? I would be interested to hear your views on the museum issue. That's what we are all here for !

Our philosophies are worlds apart

Posted on 25-05-2017 17:05 | By Papamoaner

It's quite interesting to scroll back through the historical posts on both of the debating threads on this subject. One sector frequently and passionately mentions the benefits to the community and its kids as well as potential costs and revenue. But the other sector has not once mentioned nor challenged those benefits. Not because they're against them, but simply because they don't care, and have focussed exclusively on costs to ratepayers. We are evidently worlds apart on philosophy.

@Waiknot

Posted on 25-05-2017 16:51 | By Papamoaner

I hope those perceptions in your last post turn out to be flawed, but who knows. Meanwhile, I pray (not literally) for a construction start date sooner rather than later. Moving on, I can make neither head nor tail of Angel's last post, let alone the point of it.

Game set and match to Angels

Posted on 25-05-2017 16:48 | By NZer

Looks like you have buried Robin.... But you will be waiting forever if you think Robin would ever admit he was wrong....

To put a slant on it.......

Posted on 25-05-2017 15:17 | By waiknot

We all interpret to put a favourable light on our own perspective. Papamoaner suggests that the older age groups wouldn't support a museum as they recall the old boring museums of past. I'd suggest they didn't support it because they don't want to pay for it. The younger people possibly said yes because you might as well have everything, and possibly don't pay rates and don't get the financial implications. But the then I'm just assuming like the rest of us with my own personal slant applied.

R.Bell

Posted on 25-05-2017 13:23 | By Angels

Read the above mention sunlive.5 2015 ( not 3). On page 4 left hand column it shows council unanimusly turned down spending additional money on the survey for a museum. They knew there would be the same negative feeling from the 2006 survey. Stated in the issue you referred to You should also read. You told me and everyone here a date 3 June 2015 i,d find the numbers. from a councillor not in the paper you referred to. Council on page 4 5 June 2015 sunlive ,state no use polloing the public as the feeling are the same as response in 2006 no use wasting ratepayer money as 3june 2015

Your getting boring angels,

Posted on 25-05-2017 12:42 | By R. Bell

If you are incapable of research you should give up. Councillor Gail McIntosh Quoted the figures you seek. Sunlive 3 June 2015. 49% for 31% against 20% undecided. Given the current mood for, and council now calling for long term investment partners, It is not unreasonable to expect the undecided to be split 50-50 giving a possible 60% for 40% against. A landslide by any definition. Now stop accusing me of b/s and grow up. Robin Bell.

@Angels

Posted on 25-05-2017 12:30 | By Papamoaner

Thanks for your apology. I wasn't seeking it. I would never be so ungracious as to demand apologies from anyone. It was big of you to offer it, especially just after I was humorously unkind to you, so now it's my turn to apologise. Touche!

@ the forum - Ratepayer attitudes

Posted on 25-05-2017 12:24 | By Papamoaner

I would reiterate that when ratepayers remain silent during controversial discussions in the media, it is a highly probable indication that they do not object to local body proposals. So it is reasonable to presume that a sizeable number are in favour, allowing for apathy. This is exactly what happened down in Wellington when a small but extremely loud vocal minority were up in arms over TePapa. Now, TePapa is universally supported. Other examples can be cited. The anti-fluoride stirrers are loud and vocal, but the communities are the silent majority in support, many having had fluoridated water for many decades with no ill effects. Not trying to change the subject, just using comparative example to illustrate how silence can mean tacit approval.

R.Bell

Posted on 25-05-2017 11:21 | By Angels

I apologise to papamoaner saying that you stated the all or most ratepayer associations etc were for the meseum. Mr bell 1- the phone survey was in 2006 , 1000people surveyed, the results you gave 49 in favour is no were to be found, I contacted the city for the numbers however was unable to get without going to city hall with a written request as info to far back etc. yet you pull your info from were ??the air!! You speak a lot of bs. The air. No poles done since at the city expense. Who are all these ratepayer groups you stated that support the museum. You are have lots of disinformation.What rate payer groups do support the museum you state most or all. I think just more bs

As usual papamoaner

Posted on 25-05-2017 11:18 | By R. Bell

Tauranga is being left behind. Hamilton ( roughly same demographic as Tauranga ) has had a modern museum for at least 20 yrs. they currently have a very good interactive section. Sunlive just last week advertised its latest showing of pre dinosaur history very popular, admission $14 PER ADULT.with the usual family concessions. Robin Bell.

@Anbob

Posted on 25-05-2017 10:03 | By Papamoaner

Thanks for those figures. refreshing to see opposing debaters producing tangible data. I accept your figures, but with no disrespect intended, they are very old now. Many folk are unfortunately remembering what boring places museums once were, but gradually becoming better informed these days as the new world museums emerge. Sorry to keep harping on about TePapa, but the reality is that's where it all started. TePapa was very controversial at the concept stage, but has long since proved itself and now enjoys universal support, there being no ratepayer opposition to it in any media I am aware of. For Tauranga, it's early days yet. We must keep the ball rolling. It will happen! This is mainly for our kids, and deserves selfless visionary community support.

@Angels

Posted on 25-05-2017 09:50 | By Papamoaner

You have done it again! I never referred to any "ratepayers groups in favour of a museum" You just made that up out of your head. Ratepayers only ever write about what they object to, seldom about what they agree with, so that is our only research data in absence of a referendum. As to accusing me of blowing smoke up your backside, I suggest you be more selective with what you are smoking at the other end. These perceived Vapor leakages are evidently consistent with a possible cause of your well documented incoherent ramblings. Anyway, thanks for a bit of humour in the debate. I imagine you will now go back to counting your rates pennies in your "vege" garden with fingerless knitted gloves.

Truths,where Angels fear to tread,

Posted on 25-05-2017 09:47 | By R. Bell

If you slow down and read what people say, you will better understand what people say, and who says it. The discussion around a new civic centre has been around for years. Last year the groups I refer to were canvassed by a local paper. The amenities development was met with approval with the proviso that any development included funding from outside interests, which now includes central gov't. The quote around Tga becoming" a serious player in the N.Z. city market " was made by G. Milne of the Matapihi Residents and Ratepayers Association. No specific mention of any amenity, presumably that is for Council to decide. Google it if you still think I'm blowing smoke. Robin Bell.

@Waiknot

Posted on 25-05-2017 09:12 | By Papamoaner

Thanks for those figures. Interesting observation of yours about young people being more in favour. I am wondering if some older people are put off by their memories of what a museum was. Can't blame them for visualising those tired old boring displays in dark dusty glassy museums. But they don't realise how inspirationally different modern museums generally are, because they've never been to one. They also don't realise that they are now significantly better in terms of revenue. I see you will pay nearly $20 to visit TePapa, or $45 per family. Fair enough too. Needs to be at least given a chance up here in beautiful Tauranga. I reckon it would thrive and eventually pay for itself. The only free museum I am aware of is RNZAF Wigram.

Papamoaner

Posted on 25-05-2017 07:30 | By Angels

I have answered all your questions. I have asked you to back up your blowing smoke up our backsides, stating all or most ratepayer groups are supporting the museum. What groups are you referring to. No ratepayer groups are behind the museum. Maybe a few well to do people sitting around having a drink. Not responsibly minded rate payers. We don,t want more tax $$ , what fool does . You seem to think the rate payers should just keep paying for every stupid idea that comes along. Most don,t have money to throw away on useless rate increases. We moved here 14 years ago and are rates are 138% higher than when we moved to Tauranga. What else has gone up That muchIn the past 14 years. Now you and a FEW other well to do want to penalise the MOST for this far fetched museum.

A view of one

Posted on 24-05-2017 23:54 | By Ammonite

There are always ridiculous overclaims in the comments section of support from the masses for/against a particular view being put forward by a commenter. Who cares? it's not scientific. At the end of the day as one ratepayer representing myself I'm very happy to pay for a museum from my rates. You can't dispute that!!!

Debate

Posted on 24-05-2017 22:45 | By Anbob

Mayor quoted 15 per cent were for a museum when the idea was first put forward in 1998 in NZ Herald, 8 December 2008. Earlier in 2008 a three-day BOP Times text Poll found 71.5 % opposed. Not sure what the percentages for and opposed are now. I think there are more opposed than a few dissenters on Sunlive. Let Councilors be sure they are acting for their ratepayers by having a full ratepayer poll to decide. I personally would like to see other projects prioritized before a museum. Not opposed to clearing the whole block and building the museum when TCC finances improve. Have a park there in the interim.

Survey

Posted on 24-05-2017 20:48 | By waiknot

There was a phone survey late last year. 57% supporting. 600 people surveyed not a large pool so the margin of error could be interesting. What was interesting was it was primarily the young in support. I'm not sure exactly how the questions were phrased, as this will in my view effect the outcome. Either way a slight favouring for a museum.

Quote Angels;- Which ratepayers support a museum?

Posted on 24-05-2017 17:47 | By Papamoaner

This is a stupid question that can't be answered simply because ratepayers never list nor publish that which they are happy with. What ratepayers DO express, is dissatisfaction whenever they feel it, so that is all we have to go by. The exception is when there is some sort of survey or referendum, and there has been none to date. Angels;- If you can't grasp this concept, nobody can help you. What would help all of us, is if you stop parroting it, and start asking some sensible questions. I am not trying to be rude to you at all, just straight talking. You need to be told because you are tail-spinning and getting nowhere. To date, I am only aware of a half dozen dissenters against a museum, and they are all on here. Hardly a majority

Beautiful Tauranga - so much potential!

Posted on 24-05-2017 15:32 | By Papamoaner

One of the busiest ports in NZ. Sheltered berthing for cruise ships, tramp steamers Tupperware fizz boats, tinnys, Yachts. A good walking track up the Mount. Beaches to die for. Although insufficient rock and kelp coastline for my liking, but hey, that's a minor selfish grizzle of no consequence. (sound familiar?) An interesting mining history that could be the subject of an interactive museum display. Walk into the new museum, pay your fee for the interactive headphones, just like TePapa. See an animated display of why flywheels would be so much better than batteries for powering cars. See working examples of NASA's flywheel batteries for space. Wow! think of those rates reductions, (Amen), from all that potential revenue generated. And always something new to return and see. Time to abandon the dark ages guys.

Debating

Posted on 24-05-2017 14:37 | By Papamoaner

Debating issues like this is productive only while there are debaters, but when you get a nitwit on the forum who spouts words that say nothing, consistently ignores questions, and is often incoherent, it slows the whole process down, clutters the thread, and just frustrates others who have intelligent points to make. I won't name names, but a simple GO AWAY might hopefully have some effect. I won't hold my breath though.

R. Bell

Posted on 24-05-2017 13:54 | By Angels

You are the one blowing smoke up are shady sides. You said most if not all ratepayer group support the museum. You know groups would not support any concrete proposal with open ended undisclosed funding. A few rich people sitting around talking may have made the comment to try to make this city into something it isn,t. We are a small city that does not need another losing unattended facility. If we push out all the young families from Tauranga for being to costly to live in we will only have a few Rich and all your cruise ships coming. You say I never answer anything, you run from the facts that the art gallery is a massive loss of income, hugely unattended. The museum will be the same. You don,t name even 1 RATEPAYERS group to give support to another massive losing facility.

@Waiknot- I empathise

Posted on 24-05-2017 13:46 | By Papamoaner

I think I've done it once or twice too. Especially easy since there are currently two debates on this subject, running in parallel

It's very difficult to understand angels,

Posted on 24-05-2017 13:39 | By R. Bell

perhaps as you rant over your keyboard you could take a deep breath. As you know angels you rarely if ever answer questions, probably because you are so ill informed. I refuse to do your research for you, but will repeat one statement from one such group. " It is time for us to be a serious player in the N.Z. city market and to have these amenities, and if that means an increase in rates, no one is going to enjoy that but maybe that is how it is". June 2016. The discussion is around Councils joining with other providers to enhance the city, which of course is what "we " are talking about. Robin Bell.

@PositiveNotnegative

Posted on 24-05-2017 13:26 | By Papamoaner

Wow! Thank you very much for the encouragement. We are up against one or two good debaters and a few who just waste time in endless circles, making it hard work. Some insinuate we are well off and don't care about rates, but I am just passionate about stuff like museums, mainly to get kids interested in the world around them, and I am involved in a tramping club for kids which is extremely satisfying. Their curiosity is boundless if you learn how to tap into it. You can even help shape their future once you've got their attention, and good museums are so very important in that respect. Rates? - Small comparative cost of running a car, and I'll bet some of these grizzlers have got 2 cars! Many thanks for your supportive comments.

Sorry R Bell got the wrong person.

Posted on 24-05-2017 12:47 | By waiknot

I confused who said what. Your quite correct I do not trust council bureaucrats. This is based on past manipulation of reality. I believe the Art Gallery costing is an example, also the actual state of the current/past council building is another. I believe the maintance or lack of could well have contributed to this desired outcome of building again from new. Why do I believe this, I have experienced this macavalian bureaucratic approach first hand from council. Let me stress I believe the councillors are at times victims of let's say massaged truths. Let me say again make the decision based on accurate transparent information and costs.

An enthusiastic crowd of supporters ........

Posted on 24-05-2017 12:42 | By Mackka

HOW MANY EXACTLY ?????

Which rate payer groups are supporting the museum

Posted on 24-05-2017 12:17 | By Angels

From a past comment I must be listening to a greatly different amount if people.R . Bell ,, you state most if not all the rate payer groups support. The museum.Please be kind enough to to us which groups actually if any do support the museum. Yes all will support the library. But who is for the museum??

PositiveNotNegative,

Posted on 24-05-2017 11:27 | By R. Bell

thank you for your kind words. Like papamoaner I too am of modest means, however I am encouraged by the knowledge that most if not all of the ratepayer groups around Tauranga support this initiative. Community spirit can never be self centred, we must all strive to enhance the environment for future generations and those that need it now. A museum/ library is a big call, but we are advancing rapidly, so cannot allow negative thinking to intervene. Robin Bell.

@Waiknot

Posted on 24-05-2017 10:20 | By Papamoaner

It was me who used TePapa as an example. It is a good and fair example, being only partly national and edging towards self sufficiency. It also continues to evolve which is not what what old traditional museums did. Can't speak for Robin, but my means are modest. I am just passionate about cultural opportunities for the future of our kids, many of which have been heading in wrong directions.

My Favourite People

Posted on 24-05-2017 10:17 | By PositiveNotNegative

I have two new favourite people - Papamoaner and R. Bell. Thank you so much for so eloquently and rationally putting forward the case for the investment in public amenities for this and future generations. I believe your position is a much better reflection of what the majority of people that live in Tauranga want and who feel so lucky to be living in such a spectacular place. A breath of fresh air!

Waiknot, your underskirts show at last.

Posted on 24-05-2017 08:57 | By R. Bell

you don't trust council. End of. Like many others, well not so many actually, you claim council have pre conceived agenda. You provide no evidence. In any event council are elected every 3 yrs to do just that i.e. plan for the future and undertake daily management. Like everyone else in our democracy YOU have the opportunity to stand, or vote. Forget your cynicism, support our development, it will never be perfect but we will progress regardless. To clarify my reference to Te Papa, the comparison is around the opposition to it, when first mooted. In hindsight they were proven wrong, just as you and others will be. Robin Bell.

Fed up

Posted on 24-05-2017 07:49 | By Angels

Seeing rates are totally so low that they hardly count to the rich. So we can be everything to everyone. Let's build then theme parks. ( Disney) ,water parke etc etc for all the 72 cruise ships etc.Money and rates don,t matter. Tauranga is one of the least affordable cities in the world already. Let's make it too unaffordable so the workers must all leave. Then the rich can have the city to themselves. Who going to serve your needs then. Notice NO one will talk or discuss the costs of this fantasy project. This was also stated at the open forum. City wanting idea. Great we all have pipe dreams but there is always a cost. To the few rich it does not matter.the less fortunate will pay for it the few rich to get there fantasy. The rich are too afraid of a referedum

People with too much money

Posted on 24-05-2017 07:35 | By Angels

When money is no object, rates means nothing, money is abundant. That is why a few in this situation want what they want ,at the expense of the majority of the people. To say rates etc don,t really matter. I sure hope the popping sound doesn't,t make you deaf as well as dumb when you pull your head out of your shady side. To the most people in the world not just here it does matter. Rich arrogance is the problem, the museum being another prime example.

Who you going to believe?

Posted on 23-05-2017 19:19 | By waiknot

Te Papa has been referred to repeatedly by R Bell, if not as a comparison why I do not know. Whether I can or can't afford to contribute to a museum is not relevant. Financial planning and prudence is. It appears to me that Papamoaner and R Bell are fortunate enough to be able to support a museum regardless the cost. As asked earlier did I not trust the elected councils, from past experience I believe the councillors should be careful not to trust the carefully construed information fed to them by the bureaucrats, who have preconceived plans.

Positives to ponder

Posted on 23-05-2017 18:44 | By Papamoaner

We in Tauranga are in a unique position to accept cruise tourists. If we want to keep them, we must facilitate their comings. No other city in NZ has such close berthing - a few minutes walk from the ship to Mount Maunganui shops. We need another deep water wharf near the strand to replicate that and attract them to the new museum/library that promises to be world class by all accounts. (Vide Weta workshop experts visiting, vide Sunlive). Did you know that Tauranga has had 76 cruise liner visits in recent times? (Vide P.O.T website) Attention Dumbkopf and Angels;- Did you notice that I support my claims with appropriate reference, and invite you to follow example so we can have an informed debate instead of a maelstrom of mishmash unsupported claims and constructions to deal with.

@Angels

Posted on 23-05-2017 17:11 | By Papamoaner

You are very confused my friend. I have never quoted any phone survey as accused by you. I don't really understand some of your incoherent ramblings. perhaps you wander between threads and get them mixed up and also get people mixed up. You are out of your depth sorry.

What is it about Rates?

Posted on 23-05-2017 17:06 | By Papamoaner

What's this obsession with rates? My rates amount to a small percentage of running my vehicle, but we don't hear them whinging about their vehicles. What do this small minority want? A sleepy hollow full of vegetables that do nothing, go nowhere, risk nothing, say nothing positive, wish for nothing beyond a no-rates rise? What a dead life. Stop trying to drag your community down with you. We are the majority so you won't succeed. Are you just retirees that moved here from the big smoke and can't cope with progress? Don't any of you care about the next generation? Well, I don't suppose it matters really - I can't count any more than half a dozen or so of you on these threads anyway. Hardly a force to be reckoned with.

Reply

Posted on 23-05-2017 16:23 | By Angels

You talk about the big attendance recently at the art gallery....I am talking about the atttance for the past 10 years since it opened ( not quite 10 years yet). You seem to have numbers. You quoted the results of the phone survey for the musuem of 10 years ago.. I tried as well as others and you alone are number one for finding the info. Can you find the attendance number for past 10 years on the art gallery. Then we can discuss the costs for related to this centre. Is it worth it ???? To most rates payers it is not !!! Museum idea for this size of city is for rich people's thinking, a few want it and get everyone else to pay for it. Another ratepayers nightmare. Hope we can get lots out of sponsors to save the rate payers.

Angels come and angels go,

Posted on 23-05-2017 16:17 | By R. Bell

in the meantime defeat their own arguments. Yes, yes yes Trustpower subsidise the art gallery. It's what large companies do. Any museum will also attract similar support. Do the figures before engaging in your usual uninformed scare mongering. Robin Bell.

@Angels

Posted on 23-05-2017 14:11 | By Papamoaner

Sorry, I omitted to answer one of your questions;- No, I am NOT a councillor. Just a normal nobody in the general scheme of things. I don't belong to any political organisation or pressure group. I am just an honest guy who ANSWERS ALL QUESTIONS ASKED OF ME. (Unlike some people).

@Angels

Posted on 23-05-2017 14:04 | By Papamoaner

Are you aware that 35000 visitors passed through the art gallery in the last couple of weeks during the event? (reference source- Sunlive news). You said I "do not listen to the people" I am happy to debate that with you if you have the courtesy to provide the evidence. Can you please cite a referendum or poll or survey result? If you don't do that, I can only assume you "made it up"You can't expect to debate with honesty if you just invent stuff in your head like Dumbkof does.

Guilty I'm not waiknot,

Posted on 23-05-2017 13:23 | By R. Bell

of comparing the size of Te Papa with anything we could build in Tauranga. If you calm down, do some rough figures, you will see that your fears are unfounded. Tauranga has about 60,000 rateable homes and businesses. Lets say $1 dollar added to rates for each one per week, that's about $50 a year per ratepayer. Theoretically at least that will reduce as our population increases. I'm sure $3 million a year will more than cover any shortfall in earnings for our new museum. What would you do with the $1 you may save waiknot? just asking. If you really can't afford that I'll pay your share, can't do better than that. Robin Bell.

Papamoaner

Posted on 23-05-2017 12:54 | By Angels

You love to pay extra rates for useless projects. Are you a councillor ??? It seems like it as you do not listen to the people. Just want losing fentures that only get attended by school children, how many adults attend the art gallery ?? If trust power etc did not HEAVILY support the art gallery we the rate payers would be paying a lot more rates. The museum will be the very same. Only a few wanting the whole to pay for their fantasies . To hang an old mayors dress up that she wore to meet the queen, just 1 example. The public are going to learn and gain a lot from this half asses project. Another rate payers nightmare. If you want it so bad get private funding not ratepayer funding

@Waiknot

Posted on 23-05-2017 10:11 | By Papamoaner

You are correct in that I don't know the costs. It's a lot of research I don't have time to do, but I do know some sources of income, and that's more important to an argument for long term outcomes. Last time I visited Te Papa, I paid a fee. I can't remember the cost, but it wasn't cheap, and given the crowds in there, all with headphones on, it looks like big revenue from where I'm standing. The reason I mention headphones is because they are a good guage of revenue. When you pay the entry fee for interactive displays, you get the headphones (no pay, no phones). Not any museums I have visited are free. In fact I struggle right now to remember any. Even the relatively small police museum has an entry fee. I recall MOTAT was expensive too.

Astex, I have no idea,

Posted on 23-05-2017 08:33 | By R. Bell

what the cost to ratepayers was in New Plymouth. To me it's irrelevant. Tauranga is vastly different,we are the fastest growing region in N.Z. Ratepayers are not the only source of revenue, and in any event are rapidly increasing( Ratepayers that is ), as is councils non ratepayer revenue. We are within spitting distance of the main tourist route in the N. Island, cruise ships etc. The rebuild of the city centre is a golden opportunity to capitalise on this growth for EVERYONE. You and others were against the Greerton Library, using the same arguments. Take a look at it now, a roaring success in anyones language. Robin Bell.

Good God

Posted on 22-05-2017 21:33 | By waiknot

R Bell uses Te Papa as a comparison when it suits, when no regional museum can compare. Papamoaner has no idea what these things cost. Yet they are active supporters of a museum. I love your support and enthusiasm but I still believe a transparent nuts and bolts analyses of ongoing costs is required. A fair comparison is New Plymouth eg regional, I understand it was built with funds from the sale of the council power company. I also understand the ongoing costs is an issue. And yes I have visited NPs museum and it is very nice, but can they afford it? I recently heard Don McKinnon on the radio, he said that museums are not an inherently profit making venture amongst other things. Google him he should know.

The current measurement

Posted on 22-05-2017 17:35 | By Papamoaner

How many people would turn up to a museum? Do a majority want a museum and library?Well, lets take a look at events over the last few days if that's any indication.According to a Sunlive news report, 100 people turned up to the first museum and library design workshop. That's pretty damn enthusiastic considering they are only there to contribute ideas. Watch this space! If you can't beat us, join us! C'mon guys, this is good for Tauranga, good for all of us. Great for our kids. Think positive! As Fred would have said - "get in behind"

@ R. Bell

Posted on 22-05-2017 17:03 | By astex

Why not give the full story about the New Plymouth Museum. Yes, it did win the most popular award but at what cost to the ratepayers. At the time the ratepayers did not want it and, just like here, they were told that it was needed. They were told it would not need ongoing funds from the ratepayers. So, they ended up with a museum anyway, they are paying more and more each year to keep it going and still the majority are cursing the white elephant they now have. I am not against a museum in Tauranga so here's an idea. The museum gets built on the proviso that supporters sign up to guarantee to make up any shortfall for the first 10 years out of their own funds. After all, they claim it will succeed so should have no hesitation putting their money where their mouths are.

@Waiknot

Posted on 22-05-2017 12:10 | By Papamoaner

I have no idea how TePapa is funded. Maybe a mixture, but I notice they visited here recently to discuss Tauranga museum (vide the news article) so maybe there is some national funding for regional museums. I haven't researched it. Small museums can be inter active like Te papa. An example is the air force museum at Wigram that I have visited twice and can attest to it being fantastic. You can't get near the interactive displays without queuing. Likewise MOTAT. The army museum at Waiouru is also well patronised, as is the Police museum at the police college in Porirua. Greytown, a small village in the Wairarapa has a brilliant museum that takes you back more than 100 years and is hard to get away from. Don't even mention Otago or we will be here for hours.

Why not? Waiknot,

Posted on 22-05-2017 11:12 | By R. Bell

no one has suggested a Te Papa sized museum, it is merely a comparison, as is New Plymouth, that last year received a tourism 'most popular award' Do you not trust council to make the judgement? Do you not trust council to manage the revenue flow of this city? Fact is, no matter what council decide, there will be many who disagree. Democracy, such as we have, demands strong leadership, as such I for one will be "happy"no matter what they decide. Robin Bell.

@Dumkof2

Posted on 22-05-2017 09:31 | By Papamoaner

Yet again we hear un-referenced data we can't check out. And I quote "Tauranga ratepayers have demonstrated time and again that they don't want a museum" Unquote. Where the hell did you get this from?It contributes nothing objective to the debate sorry old chap, you are wasting our time.

R Bell's misunderstanding of democracy,

Posted on 22-05-2017 09:02 | By R. Bell

as claimed by dubmkof and rastus. Wonder no longer rastus,I have lived in Tga. for 60yrs. I pay both directly and indirectly to 3 councils who administer this area. Democracy allows me the same rights, no more, no less than anyone who arrived here a week ago. Mr dumbkof invites me to go elsewhere, as though that would stop the movement for a museum. How deluded can he be? answer very deluded, to the extent that he believes he can order council to withdraw his contribution. Oh!! dear dumbkof. Robin Bell.

Well

Posted on 21-05-2017 20:35 | By Capt_Kaveman

You voted them in

museum

Posted on 21-05-2017 19:48 | By dumbkof2

r bell take your grandiose plans somewhere else. tauranga ratepayers have demonstrated time and again they dont want this museum if you are so keen you build and finance it then we will see how many people will go. what part of no dont you understand.

Funding

Posted on 21-05-2017 19:21 | By Kaimai

Those that want the museum - add $100 on to your annual rates, those that rent make a donation to the council, tag it for the museum - nek minnet we'll have a museum, yeah right.

Papamoaner

Posted on 21-05-2017 17:43 | By waiknot

No disrespect intended, but Wellington is NZ capital with funding coming from central govt. A totally different situation. If Tauranga was to build a Te Papa scale museum watch the cost spira. Remember regardless of how council intends to fund it, the ratepayers will be the port of last call to makeup any shortfall. Accordingly transparency as to honest projected costs is required.

.

Posted on 21-05-2017 17:14 | By Bop man

Why do they think there needs to be a purpose built building surely they can just retro fit an existing building no need to build a new building, would this not be a cheaper option.

Sorry to offend Murray,

Posted on 21-05-2017 16:39 | By R. Bell

but as usual you are biased.In 2006 council surveyed the electorate resulting in a majority in support of a museum. You claim "pre determined" yet can show no evidence. No one, as in zero, zilch, zip single ratepayer owns their rate/tax contribution once made. It is a tax, and as such is each individual ratepayers legal responsibility to contribute. The C.B.D. is undergoing major upgrade, as such it is the logical place for a Museum/ library complex. Read papamoaners comment below and forget politics and my perceived bluntness and concentrate on what is best for the community as a whole. You may then become a part owner in a new museum. Robin Bell.

@Rastus

Posted on 21-05-2017 16:05 | By Papamoaner

I am interested to know the figures for the poll you refer to. Previous posts have mentioned a poll too, but I don't recall any poll, and can find no record of such. Are you all exaggerating, When making those claims? In a debate, you should include references. Otherwise it gets filed in the bullshit basket and demolishes credibility.

@PaulM

Posted on 21-05-2017 15:39 | By Papamoaner

PaulM's idea of a museum is in the ice age. Yes, they were once a bit like that mate, but I think you had better hop on a plane and go down for a look at TePapa in Wellington, and while you're there, visit Weta workshop museum and blow your mind back into 2017. Also the Maritime museum if you have time. Yes, Wellington has 3 museums. Then come back and support our museum, as you will once the homework is all done mate.

Usual suspects

Posted on 21-05-2017 13:58 | By rastus

I wonder just how long R Bell has been a Tauranga ratepayer - all these out of town and recent arrivals can take their grandiose ideas elsewhere - the ratepayers have shown in previous polls that they do not wish to fund a museum - let alone the art gallery that they were lied to about, and continue to provide for. R Bells misunderstanding of what a democratic society is and how it is financed is just another example of the ignorance that pervades society.

Museum Bah !

Posted on 21-05-2017 13:43 | By PaulM

As a very young country we have only short term contrived articles, mostly old chuck out rubbish, for this so called Museum. It will be devoted to Maori artifacts. Who is going to use it and pay for it ? Like the Art Gallery which only function numerically by the regular delivery of young schoolchildren having a morning off from education.

Sad that integrity, honesty, democracy takes a back seat

Posted on 21-05-2017 13:39 | By Murray.Guy

There has been NO, as in zero, zip, survey of ANY credibility in regards 'museum options' and it doesn't help engender support for a CBD Museum when posts such as that by R Bell are so inaccurate and frankly offensive. Tauranga City Council has NEVER championed community consultation that was not with critical elements predetermined, a CBD location. DO NOT believe R Bell, ratepayers VERY MUCH remain 'owners' of their rates paid, along will ALL ASSETS held on their behalf by the Council, just as it is ratepayers who, forever, will be liable for the $millions in on-going subsidies. YES, I want our items of significance, historical and cultural out of the closet and on display, and there are many very viable options to achieve this cost effectively, enhancing and adding to existing amenities such as The Elms, the Historic Village, and others. Baldock, referendum please, as promised.

The big picture

Posted on 21-05-2017 12:39 | By Papamoaner

We have serious youth problems, partly caused by aimless desperation where many young folk cannot see any future. Some advocate a culture of "winners and losers" (eg; rugby union and league). Others seldom empathise beyond their own insular bubble (eg "as long as they don't use my rates money). For these young people who are tomorrow's adults and tomorrow's movers and shakers, we need distraction from boredom. We need to get them excited about stuff a bit more sophisticated than the crudeness of obsessive competitive sport and production of "celebrities" Museums and libraries are a proven way to achieve that. If you can get one kid to see something and go "WOW" you've lit the fuse. The blinder we get, the more we can see if we THINK.

Every survey taken,

Posted on 21-05-2017 11:49 | By R. Bell

has shown a majority for a museum. People will remain stupid dumbkof as long as we resist education in the form of a museum and library. Once your rates are paid they are no longer your money. It's the price YOU pay for the privilege of living in our community. Don't like it? you know what to do. Robin Bell.

How many?

Posted on 21-05-2017 10:15 | By Kaimai

How many is an "enthusiastic crowd of supporters"? There was an "enthusiastic crowd of supporters" at the Warriors on Friday at Hamilton too, and maybe more from Tauranga that attended the International Museum Day but I don't see a rush to build a suitable stadium for rugby (union and league).

No thanks

Posted on 21-05-2017 09:55 | By overit

But if one goes ahead please put an admission charge on it, unlike the Art Gallery which I fund for all and sundry to visit for free.

Just get on with it.

Posted on 21-05-2017 08:46 | By waiknot

Well if you have a room full of like minded people than you will have a ground swell of support. I don't have view either way on a museum but it's clear it will happen regardless. So stop the pretence and get on with it.

museum

Posted on 21-05-2017 08:20 | By dumbkof2

as long as they dont use my rates money for this stupidity i dont care what they do

Woohoo!

Posted on 21-05-2017 07:26 | By Papamoaner

How refreshing to see a good number of bright people with forward vision supporting this worthy project. But hey, don't forget the library. That's equally important.

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